Comments on: MTA likely to implement ’08 fare hike http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/07/23/mta-likely-to-implement-%e2%80%9908-fare-hike/ A New York City Subway Blog Wed, 23 May 2012 12:37:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: MTA Could Move on Fare Hike TODAY : SUBWAYblogger.com: Blog from the New York Subway http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/07/23/mta-likely-to-implement-%e2%80%9908-fare-hike/#comment-986 MTA Could Move on Fare Hike TODAY : SUBWAYblogger.com: Blog from the New York Subway Wed, 25 Jul 2007 12:40:29 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/07/23/mta-likely-to-implement-%e2%80%9908-fare-hike/#comment-986 [...] reports say that the MTA could vote on its first fare hike in four years as early as today!  :-(  If an increase is on the agenda, there won’t be a [...] [...] reports say that the MTA could vote on its first fare hike in four years as early as today!  :-(   If an increase is on the agenda, there won’t be a [...]

]]> By: Marc Shepherd http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/07/23/mta-likely-to-implement-%e2%80%9908-fare-hike/#comment-988 Marc Shepherd Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:58:51 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/07/23/mta-likely-to-implement-%e2%80%9908-fare-hike/#comment-988 No, I am not "drinking Spitzer's juice." The statement that "fare increases are a last resort" is just a standard disclaimer that politicians of both parties use all the time. And then, every few years, after all other *realistic* options are exhausted, fares do indeed go up. If you are wondering why, just look at the history of the five-cent fare, which nearly killed the subway in the 1930s. It is incoherent to complain about service, and then to *also* complain about weekend service diversions. You want less maintenance? Service improvement, or even keeping the current level of service, is not possible without constant repairs and upgrades. Remember the 1970s? We have one of the few 24×7 subway systems in the world. When, exactly, do you expect them to maintain it? No, I am not “drinking Spitzer’s juice.” The statement that “fare increases are a last resort” is just a standard disclaimer that politicians of both parties use all the time. And then, every few years, after all other *realistic* options are exhausted, fares do indeed go up. If you are wondering why, just look at the history of the five-cent fare, which nearly killed the subway in the 1930s.

It is incoherent to complain about service, and then to *also* complain about weekend service diversions. You want less maintenance? Service improvement, or even keeping the current level of service, is not possible without constant repairs and upgrades. Remember the 1970s? We have one of the few 24×7 subway systems in the world. When, exactly, do you expect them to maintain it?

]]> By: Lex http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/07/23/mta-likely-to-implement-%e2%80%9908-fare-hike/#comment-987 Lex Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:27:16 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/07/23/mta-likely-to-implement-%e2%80%9908-fare-hike/#comment-987 Shepherd: Are you drinking Spitzer's juice, too? This isn't a last resort. And these weekend repairs that go on in Manhattan which make traversing the subway a nightmare and scare away many a tourist who would be better off not clogging our streets should not be done in "bunches". It's just common sense, the system has been a victim of neglect for the hundred years it's been around and now it needs updating. But to update every LINE every weekend for the next 10 years? Only to have to do it all over again..? Wouldn't it be prudent to do sections at a time? Shepherd: Are you drinking Spitzer’s juice, too? This isn’t a last resort. And these weekend repairs that go on in Manhattan which make traversing the subway a nightmare and scare away many a tourist who would be better off not clogging our streets should not be done in “bunches”. It’s just common sense, the system has been a victim of neglect for the hundred years it’s been around and now it needs updating. But to update every LINE every weekend for the next 10 years? Only to have to do it all over again..? Wouldn’t it be prudent to do sections at a time?

]]> By: Marc Shepherd http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/07/23/mta-likely-to-implement-%e2%80%9908-fare-hike/#comment-989 Marc Shepherd Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:14:21 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/07/23/mta-likely-to-implement-%e2%80%9908-fare-hike/#comment-989 AgentK, the average cost of a transit ride is now $1.30. That includes people who take more than 2 transit rides a day, and it also includes people who make bus-subway transfers. Remember, before the MetroCard, transfers between bus and subway entailed an extra fare. It also encompasses various discounts (senior citizens, students, etc.). Add it all up, and you get to $1.30 per ride. You are correct that most subway systems have distance-based fares. New York's system wasn't designed that way, and there's no point yelling about it, because the people who made the decision are all dead. To change it NOW would require a massive capital investment at every single one of the 468 subway stations. At the end of that investment (which would take years), service would be no better. We would simply have invested hundreds of millions of dollars to change the way fares are calculated. I think most people would rather spend that money improving the system. Of course, even if a distance-based fare system were a good idea in the abstract (which it isn't), it wouldn't be acceptable politically. It would basically mean that people in the outer boroughs (i.e., those with lower incomes) are forced pay more for their ride to work than those who live in Manhattan. The outer-borough legislators (who outnumber their Manhattan counterparts) would surely block it, just as they are blocking congestion pricing. By the way, I don't view this increase as contradicting Spitzer's campaign promise. He said fare hikes would be a last resort, and sure enough, they are. I do agree that service should get better, particularly on weekends and during the evenings, but bear in mind that every service improvement widens the funding gap that needs to be filled somehow. AgentK, the average cost of a transit ride is now $1.30. That includes people who take more than 2 transit rides a day, and it also includes people who make bus-subway transfers. Remember, before the MetroCard, transfers between bus and subway entailed an extra fare. It also encompasses various discounts (senior citizens, students, etc.). Add it all up, and you get to $1.30 per ride.

You are correct that most subway systems have distance-based fares. New York’s system wasn’t designed that way, and there’s no point yelling about it, because the people who made the decision are all dead. To change it NOW would require a massive capital investment at every single one of the 468 subway stations. At the end of that investment (which would take years), service would be no better. We would simply have invested hundreds of millions of dollars to change the way fares are calculated. I think most people would rather spend that money improving the system.

Of course, even if a distance-based fare system were a good idea in the abstract (which it isn’t), it wouldn’t be acceptable politically. It would basically mean that people in the outer boroughs (i.e., those with lower incomes) are forced pay more for their ride to work than those who live in Manhattan. The outer-borough legislators (who outnumber their Manhattan counterparts) would surely block it, just as they are blocking congestion pricing.

By the way, I don’t view this increase as contradicting Spitzer’s campaign promise. He said fare hikes would be a last resort, and sure enough, they are. I do agree that service should get better, particularly on weekends and during the evenings, but bear in mind that every service improvement widens the funding gap that needs to be filled somehow.

]]> By: AgentK http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/07/23/mta-likely-to-implement-%e2%80%9908-fare-hike/#comment-990 AgentK Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:38:15 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/07/23/mta-likely-to-implement-%e2%80%9908-fare-hike/#comment-990 "unlimited ride passes, the average subway ride now costs around $1.30"--ridiculous. This figure is wrong. The 30-day card costs $76. If you go to work 5 days a week, you have 22 work days in 30; if you go to work 6 days a week, you have 26 days in 30. Rounded off, 76/22/2=1.73; 76/26/2=1.46; $1.30 comes out of nowhere. 76/1.30/2=29.2 days??? Also, for the $10 card, you get 6 rides; the average cost is 10/6=1.67. I hate it when MTA scams the 5-day workers. I think they should redesign the system to catch up with the rest of the world. In most modern cities, the train fare is distance-based and you need to use the card when you exit. To prevent people from abusing the system (traveling a long distance, not leaving and exit from the original station), staying in the train system for over a few hours is illegal. If MTA were to implement this method, they can raise the price reasonably without affecting relatively-short-distance users. In addition, this can solve the hobo problem. By the way, when MTA introduced the swipe cards, it was the time when other cities abandoned the swiping method and moved onto contactless cards and "barless" turnstiles. Even when the other cities were using swiping turnstiles, the machine has conveyor belts to pick up the card and ensure correct swiping speed. I could not believe that MTA wasted so much money on ancient technology. “unlimited ride passes, the average subway ride now costs around $1.30″–ridiculous. This figure is wrong. The 30-day card costs $76. If you go to work 5 days a week, you have 22 work days in 30; if you go to work 6 days a week, you have 26 days in 30. Rounded off, 76/22/2=1.73; 76/26/2=1.46; $1.30 comes out of nowhere. 76/1.30/2=29.2 days??? Also, for the $10 card, you get 6 rides; the average cost is 10/6=1.67. I hate it when MTA scams the 5-day workers. I think they should redesign the system to catch up with the rest of the world. In most modern cities, the train fare is distance-based and you need to use the card when you exit. To prevent people from abusing the system (traveling a long distance, not leaving and exit from the original station), staying in the train system for over a few hours is illegal. If MTA were to implement this method, they can raise the price reasonably without affecting relatively-short-distance users. In addition, this can solve the hobo problem. By the way, when MTA introduced the swipe cards, it was the time when other cities abandoned the swiping method and moved onto contactless cards and “barless” turnstiles. Even when the other cities were using swiping turnstiles, the machine has conveyor belts to pick up the card and ensure correct swiping speed. I could not believe that MTA wasted so much money on ancient technology.

]]> By: Straphangers report cards name 1 the top, C and W the worst « Second Ave. Sagas | Blogging the NYC Subways http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/07/23/mta-likely-to-implement-%e2%80%9908-fare-hike/#comment-992 Straphangers report cards name 1 the top, C and W the worst « Second Ave. Sagas | Blogging the NYC Subways Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:49:40 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/07/23/mta-likely-to-implement-%e2%80%9908-fare-hike/#comment-992 [...] certainly makes it sound like the MTA could really use that money from the congestion fee and that upcoming fare hike. But at what cost to the [...] [...] certainly makes it sound like the MTA could really use that money from the congestion fee and that upcoming fare hike. But at what cost to the [...]

]]> By: Mark http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/07/23/mta-likely-to-implement-%e2%80%9908-fare-hike/#comment-991 Mark Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:12:04 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/07/23/mta-likely-to-implement-%e2%80%9908-fare-hike/#comment-991 Don't worry. Congestion pricing will cure all of our transportation ills. Don’t worry. Congestion pricing will cure all of our transportation ills.

]]> By: Lex http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/07/23/mta-likely-to-implement-%e2%80%9908-fare-hike/#comment-993 Lex Mon, 23 Jul 2007 17:35:56 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/07/23/mta-likely-to-implement-%e2%80%9908-fare-hike/#comment-993 This news just makes me sick. Our fare is already too high considering the level of service, especially on the east side. And cry me a river F/V BK riders. Really. How many YEARS, even DECADES have the Bronx and UES riders been bitching about a SAS or at least better service? How long have we had local 6 train and express 4/5 service that makes the F/V look like the Orient Express? The 6 is overcrowded on a daily basis with folks who've realized that there isn't even a point to the "express" 4/5 when there is some sort of "delay". Now we're going to pay more and hope for better service? Right. And let's not even get started on the express buses and traffic issue. This news just makes me sick. Our fare is already too high considering the level of service, especially on the east side. And cry me a river F/V BK riders. Really. How many YEARS, even DECADES have the Bronx and UES riders been bitching about a SAS or at least better service? How long have we had local 6 train and express 4/5 service that makes the F/V look like the Orient Express? The 6 is overcrowded on a daily basis with folks who’ve realized that there isn’t even a point to the “express” 4/5 when there is some sort of “delay”.

Now we’re going to pay more and hope for better service? Right. And let’s not even get started on the express buses and traffic issue.

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