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	<title>Comments on: Brooklyn council members to vote down fare hike over F express plan</title>
	<atom:link href="http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/</link>
	<description>A New York City Subway Blog</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1240</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1240</guid>
		<description>Todd - &quot;What specifically are they doing the work on? Why will it take some long to complete?&quot;

They are rehabilitating the entire viaduct structure (which is steel and concrete).  The concrete is in such bad shape that chunks were falling off, which is why the entire structure is wrapped in that black netting.

In addition to rehabbing the structure itself, they are also rehabbing the track bed structure, installing new rails, signals, and switches (to make everything CBTC ready), they are doing a full station rehab of smith-9th Street and installing elevators, and making key repairs to 4th avenue which, as I understand it, includes replacing the canopy and doing some repairs to the platforms and rehabbing the tower at 4th Ave.

I am not sure if this is going to be performed in conjunction with the tunnel lighting projects that are taking place between E.Bway and Carrol and 4th Ave to Church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd &#8211; &#8220;What specifically are they doing the work on? Why will it take some long to complete?&#8221;</p>
<p>They are rehabilitating the entire viaduct structure (which is steel and concrete).  The concrete is in such bad shape that chunks were falling off, which is why the entire structure is wrapped in that black netting.</p>
<p>In addition to rehabbing the structure itself, they are also rehabbing the track bed structure, installing new rails, signals, and switches (to make everything CBTC ready), they are doing a full station rehab of smith-9th Street and installing elevators, and making key repairs to 4th avenue which, as I understand it, includes replacing the canopy and doing some repairs to the platforms and rehabbing the tower at 4th Ave.</p>
<p>I am not sure if this is going to be performed in conjunction with the tunnel lighting projects that are taking place between E.Bway and Carrol and 4th Ave to Church.</p>
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		<title>By: Express F Train</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1231</link>
		<dc:creator>Express F Train</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1231</guid>
		<description>havent i said it was too optimistic already?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>havent i said it was too optimistic already?</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Shepherd</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1230</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Shepherd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1230</guid>
		<description>Okay, I do agree that if the Astoria Line were extended to LaGuardia Airport, then a fourth track would be extremely useful. But the LaGuardia Airport Subway Extension was basically mothballed after Mayor Giuliani left office. It&#039;s not on the MTA&#039;s radar screen any more, and many existing projects, such as the Second Avenue Subway, aren&#039;t yet fully funded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, I do agree that if the Astoria Line were extended to LaGuardia Airport, then a fourth track would be extremely useful. But the LaGuardia Airport Subway Extension was basically mothballed after Mayor Giuliani left office. It&#8217;s not on the MTA&#8217;s radar screen any more, and many existing projects, such as the Second Avenue Subway, aren&#8217;t yet fully funded.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1229</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 04:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1229</guid>
		<description>What specifically are they doing the work on?  Why will it take some long to complete?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What specifically are they doing the work on?  Why will it take some long to complete?</p>
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		<title>By: F Express</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1234</link>
		<dc:creator>F Express</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 02:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1234</guid>
		<description>Well, if the Astoria Line is four tracked then the express tracks can link to LaGuardia Airport meaning a possible one seat ride to Midtown and Downtown.
But again, this is too optimistic for a budget tight MTA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, if the Astoria Line is four tracked then the express tracks can link to LaGuardia Airport meaning a possible one seat ride to Midtown and Downtown.<br />
But again, this is too optimistic for a budget tight MTA.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Shepherd</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1238</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Shepherd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 21:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1238</guid>
		<description>Yup, I thought that was the case. The renovation of the Howard Beach–JFK station was similar (local tracks closed; platforms temporarily extended to reach the express tracks).

Express F Train: budgets aren&#039;t infinite. Before the MTA would add a fourth track to the existing 3-track lines, someone needs to demonstrate that there&#039;s a demand for that capacity, and that it&#039;s more pressing than other subway investments we could make. It&#039;s unlikely you could make that case. On the lines you mentioned, the heavy demand is mostly during rush hours in the peak direction, and a 3-track configuration can satisfy that.

What&#039;s more, the West End and Astoria lines currently have no express service at all, and I haven&#039;t heard of any community desire to provide them. The Astoria Line actually had express service a few years ago, and the community asked the MTA to change it back to all-local. Demographics have changed since the line was built, and the local stations are now more popular than they originally were.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup, I thought that was the case. The renovation of the Howard Beach–JFK station was similar (local tracks closed; platforms temporarily extended to reach the express tracks).</p>
<p>Express F Train: budgets aren&#8217;t infinite. Before the MTA would add a fourth track to the existing 3-track lines, someone needs to demonstrate that there&#8217;s a demand for that capacity, and that it&#8217;s more pressing than other subway investments we could make. It&#8217;s unlikely you could make that case. On the lines you mentioned, the heavy demand is mostly during rush hours in the peak direction, and a 3-track configuration can satisfy that.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s more, the West End and Astoria lines currently have no express service at all, and I haven&#8217;t heard of any community desire to provide them. The Astoria Line actually had express service a few years ago, and the community asked the MTA to change it back to all-local. Demographics have changed since the line was built, and the local stations are now more popular than they originally were.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1237</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:52:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1237</guid>
		<description>I believe the issue with an F express and the viaduct project is that once the project starts, the local tracks are going to be taken out of service and all trains will be running on the express tracks.

As I understand it, there will be a hard track connection made just south of the carroll street portal that will shift trains from the local to express tracks (and vice versa in the opposite direction).  Platform extensions will be built at Smith-9th and 4th Ave allowing riders to use those stations even though trains will be on the express tracks.  Because the express tracks are being used for service, the G cannot turn around at 4th avenue and is being extended to Church where it can turn around.

The problem is that there is not enough capacity on the tracks for the F (as it is currently routed), the G, and an F or V express to all use the same tracks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the issue with an F express and the viaduct project is that once the project starts, the local tracks are going to be taken out of service and all trains will be running on the express tracks.</p>
<p>As I understand it, there will be a hard track connection made just south of the carroll street portal that will shift trains from the local to express tracks (and vice versa in the opposite direction).  Platform extensions will be built at Smith-9th and 4th Ave allowing riders to use those stations even though trains will be on the express tracks.  Because the express tracks are being used for service, the G cannot turn around at 4th avenue and is being extended to Church where it can turn around.</p>
<p>The problem is that there is not enough capacity on the tracks for the F (as it is currently routed), the G, and an F or V express to all use the same tracks.</p>
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		<title>By: Express F Train</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1236</link>
		<dc:creator>Express F Train</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1236</guid>
		<description>I believe that making the elevated structure from the Church Ave Portal to Kings Highway a four track structure. This will allow express and local service in both directions anytime. A fourth track can be built on the side of the southbound local track from Ditmars Avenue to Kings Highway. Local stations will be reconstructed so that they will face the new track instead of the old local track which will be an express  track. However I am not sure if the MTA would consider it. But if it does, then hopefully all Dual Contracts era former BMT elevated structures would be converted (I am talking about the Astoria, Culver and West End) to four track structures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that making the elevated structure from the Church Ave Portal to Kings Highway a four track structure. This will allow express and local service in both directions anytime. A fourth track can be built on the side of the southbound local track from Ditmars Avenue to Kings Highway. Local stations will be reconstructed so that they will face the new track instead of the old local track which will be an express  track. However I am not sure if the MTA would consider it. But if it does, then hopefully all Dual Contracts era former BMT elevated structures would be converted (I am talking about the Astoria, Culver and West End) to four track structures.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Kabak</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1235</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Kabak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1235</guid>
		<description>I should call it the Gowanus Viaduct. That&#039;s its proper name. I&#039;ll fix it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should call it the Gowanus Viaduct. That&#8217;s its proper name. I&#8217;ll fix it.</p>
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		<title>By: KidTwist</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1233</link>
		<dc:creator>KidTwist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/08/22/brooklyn-council-members-to-vote-down-fare-hike-over-f-express-plan/#comment-1233</guid>
		<description>Small point: It&#039;s not the Culver viaduct they&#039;re working on. It&#039;s the IND viaduct through South Brooklyn. The Culver line is the old BMT elevated structure from Ditmas Avenue to Coney Island.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Small point: It&#8217;s not the Culver viaduct they&#8217;re working on. It&#8217;s the IND viaduct through South Brooklyn. The Culver line is the old BMT elevated structure from Ditmas Avenue to Coney Island.</p>
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