Comments on: In defense of the F Express plan http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/ A New York City Subway Blog Fri, 09 Jan 2009 14:34:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: David http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-5958 David Tue, 04 Dec 2007 01:30:35 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-5958 I always get so annoyed how crowded the F train gets. And for some stupid reason they wont use the express trackson the F. In fact if you look on caroll street, there is a barrier to stopa train from entering the tunnnel on the express track. I'm always wonder, why the hell would they remove it? On my commute home i get on an A train at 59th street, then at Jay St. I transfer to the F. Now I'd rather go on a faster, and less crowded train, wouldn't you? At Jay Street the F train is packed to the max. I live on avenue I, so i could just take the express to 18th ave, and wait for a local tp take me to ave. I. WHY CAN'T THAT HAPPEN?!!! I always get so annoyed how crowded the F train gets. And for some stupid reason they wont use the express trackson the F. In fact if you look on caroll street, there is a barrier to stopa train from entering the tunnnel on the express track. I’m always wonder, why the hell would they remove it? On my commute home i get on an A train at 59th street, then at Jay St. I transfer to the F. Now I’d rather go on a faster, and less crowded train, wouldn’t you? At Jay Street the F train is packed to the max. I live on avenue I, so i could just take the express to 18th ave, and wait for a local tp take me to ave. I. WHY CAN’T THAT HAPPEN?!!!

]]> By: Benjamin Kabak http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-1383 Benjamin Kabak Wed, 19 Sep 2007 19:58:50 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-1383 Benjamin: I'm with you. But until someone takes the initiative to drive those proposals through the necessary funding and review procedures, we should be making the most of the current tracks. And T: As Marc noted, these F Express tracks are the only legitimately underused express tracks. Those other third tracks you mention are good, but most wouldn't do much to alleviate over crowding on busy train lines. Benjamin: I’m with you. But until someone takes the initiative to drive those proposals through the necessary funding and review procedures, we should be making the most of the current tracks.

And T: As Marc noted, these F Express tracks are the only legitimately underused express tracks. Those other third tracks you mention are good, but most wouldn’t do much to alleviate over crowding on busy train lines.

]]> By: Benjamin http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-1382 Benjamin Wed, 19 Sep 2007 19:55:32 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-1382 What is needed for underserved and overcrowded parts of Brooklyn, as well as the rest of the City, including Staten Island, is more subway lines. Pure and simple. Until we face up to that fact, we will be only doing things on the margins like express buses, congestion pricing, etc. What is needed for underserved and overcrowded parts of Brooklyn, as well as the rest of the City, including Staten Island, is more subway lines. Pure and simple. Until we face up to that fact, we will be only doing things on the margins like express buses, congestion pricing, etc.

]]> By: Marc Shepherd http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-1381 Marc Shepherd Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:12:16 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-1381 Peter, in the first place the MTA hasn't said what service pattern they will offer. Actually, they haven't committed to running any new service all, much less which line will operate as the express. There are probably not many people using the F to commute between Brooklyn and Queens without changing trains, so the point you raised isn't likely to confuse anyone. And there are other services that are express for part of their route and local for another. T, yes it's true that there are other sets of unused express tracks. But the point is to offer services to meet demand, not to run services just because they are possible. For example, consider the unused Astoria Line express tracks. The MTA ran the W as an Astoria express a few years ago. The community actually complained, and asked for more local service, so now both the N and the W are local in Queens. Peter, in the first place the MTA hasn’t said what service pattern they will offer. Actually, they haven’t committed to running any new service all, much less which line will operate as the express. There are probably not many people using the F to commute between Brooklyn and Queens without changing trains, so the point you raised isn’t likely to confuse anyone. And there are other services that are express for part of their route and local for another.

T, yes it’s true that there are other sets of unused express tracks. But the point is to offer services to meet demand, not to run services just because they are possible. For example, consider the unused Astoria Line express tracks. The MTA ran the W as an Astoria express a few years ago. The community actually complained, and asked for more local service, so now both the N and the W are local in Queens.

]]> By: Peter http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-1390 Peter Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:20:30 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-1390 I assume the reason that the F will be express and the V will be local is because that's exactly how it's set up already in Queens. It'd be confusing to make the F express in Queens and local in Brooklyn (and vice versa for the V) I assume the reason that the F will be express and the V will be local is because that’s exactly how it’s set up already in Queens. It’d be confusing to make the F express in Queens and local in Brooklyn (and vice versa for the V)

]]> By: T to Governor's Island http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-1389 T to Governor's Island Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:08:11 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-1389 Ben, I love your reply to the shortsighted op-ed, but the F express tracks aren't the only ones not in service. http://nycsubway.org/faq/abandexp.html Ben,

I love your reply to the shortsighted op-ed, but the F express tracks aren’t the only ones not in service.

http://nycsubway.org/faq/abandexp.html

]]> By: (Rev) Daniel Meeter http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-1387 (Rev) Daniel Meeter Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:59:06 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-1387 It's too bad that the opposition to this possibililty feels like an example of the Brownstone Island problem, that the rest of the borough doesn't matter. We have to support the MTA trying a number of alternatives, like what happened with the B and D, and the best way to do it is by actually running them; these can't be perfectly predicted. Imagine if the G were to be extended to Stillwell Ave as part of the mix, either the local or express. Think of all the Russian and Polish riders suddenly taking it between Brooklyn and Queens. Think of all the Bangladeshi and Arab and Indian riders doing the same on the weekends and at nights. Think of all the Latin Americans taking it between Kensington and Jackson Heights on the weekends. If the G were permanently extended out to its off-hours terminus on Queens Boulevard, the access to LaGuardia and Shea and Flushing would be much improved. The G ridership would increase tremendously, not just for Park Slopers going to to party in Williamsburg! The track capacity is there. It’s too bad that the opposition to this possibililty feels like an example of the Brownstone Island problem, that the rest of the borough doesn’t matter.

We have to support the MTA trying a number of alternatives, like what happened with the B and D, and the best way to do it is by actually running them; these can’t be perfectly predicted.

Imagine if the G were to be extended to Stillwell Ave as part of the mix, either the local or express. Think of all the Russian and Polish riders suddenly taking it between Brooklyn and Queens. Think of all the Bangladeshi and Arab and Indian riders doing the same on the weekends and at nights. Think of all the Latin Americans taking it between Kensington and Jackson Heights on the weekends. If the G were permanently extended out to its off-hours terminus on Queens Boulevard, the access to LaGuardia and Shea and Flushing would be much improved. The G ridership would increase tremendously, not just for Park Slopers going to to party in Williamsburg!
The track capacity is there.

]]> By: Gary http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-1386 Gary Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:50:46 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-1386 Marc, you have a good point. The important thing is we get the enhanced service up and running. Ben, great work. I'm putting up a post now. And don't forget to vote today if you are a Brooklyn Democrat - it's primary day. Marc, you have a good point. The important thing is we get the enhanced service up and running.

Ben, great work. I’m putting up a post now.

And don’t forget to vote today if you are a Brooklyn Democrat - it’s primary day.

]]> By: Marc Shepherd http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-1388 Marc Shepherd Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:25:50 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-1388 The editorial is, of course, poorly informed. There are many places in the subway system where two lines merge into one. The A/C is an example, where local and express come together before Jay Street. The F/V would be exactly analogous. But your plan makes the error of touting the F as the express, when clearly it's the V that should be express. The benefit is that people at local stations who are accustomed to taking the F, will <I>still</I> take the F. People at express stations will simply have one new option (the V) that they never had before. Any plan is to be preferred that minimizes the number of passengers who need to learn a new service pattern. The other point, which I should have thought was obvious, is that the express surely won't be 24/7. No one is suggesting that the Culver Line needs two full-time services. So the F should retain its current pattern of serving all stations at all times. The V would be a fill-in service, as it is today on the other parts of its route. This would be much simpler, as no one would ever board an F or V and be in any doubt as to where it's going. The editorial is, of course, poorly informed. There are many places in the subway system where two lines merge into one. The A/C is an example, where local and express come together before Jay Street. The F/V would be exactly analogous.

But your plan makes the error of touting the F as the express, when clearly it’s the V that should be express. The benefit is that people at local stations who are accustomed to taking the F, will still take the F. People at express stations will simply have one new option (the V) that they never had before. Any plan is to be preferred that minimizes the number of passengers who need to learn a new service pattern.

The other point, which I should have thought was obvious, is that the express surely won’t be 24/7. No one is suggesting that the Culver Line needs two full-time services. So the F should retain its current pattern of serving all stations at all times. The V would be a fill-in service, as it is today on the other parts of its route. This would be much simpler, as no one would ever board an F or V and be in any doubt as to where it’s going.

]]> By: David http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-1385 David Tue, 18 Sep 2007 06:54:16 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/09/18/in-defense-of-the-f-express-plan/#comment-1385 Sorry for the anonymous comment, that was me. I guess being signed into WP did that. Sorry for the anonymous comment, that was me. I guess being signed into WP did that.

]]>