Comments on: Specter of the 5ยข fare haunts the current fare hike debate http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/ A New York City Subway Blog Fri, 21 Nov 2008 06:55:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog » Blog Archive » Thinking Out Loud: The MTA should double the fares http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-40558 Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog » Blog Archive » Thinking Out Loud: The MTA should double the fares Thu, 24 Jul 2008 05:27:59 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-40558 [...] discussed how a five-cent fare kept around long after inflation and the cost of running the subways demanded numerous fare hikes had ruined the subway system forever. Today, with the talk swirling of another fare hike in 2009 [...] [...] discussed how a five-cent fare kept around long after inflation and the cost of running the subways demanded numerous fare hikes had ruined the subway system forever. Today, with the talk swirling of another fare hike in 2009 [...]

]]> By: Second Ave. Sagas | Blogging the NYC Subways » Blog Archive » With the fare hike, the subways are still a good deal http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-28989 Second Ave. Sagas | Blogging the NYC Subways » Blog Archive » With the fare hike, the subways are still a good deal Wed, 05 Mar 2008 04:50:05 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-28989 [...] per ride could drop to nearly $1.00 per ride, people aren’t paying a full fare. As I’ve written in the past, the average cost per ride comes out to approximately $1.31. Even with a 6.5 percent increase, the [...] [...] per ride could drop to nearly $1.00 per ride, people aren’t paying a full fare. As I’ve written in the past, the average cost per ride comes out to approximately $1.31. Even with a 6.5 percent increase, the [...]

]]> By: Second Ave. Sagas | Blogging the NYC Subways » Blog Archive » The MTA’s Capital future will not be free http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-5279 Second Ave. Sagas | Blogging the NYC Subways » Blog Archive » The MTA’s Capital future will not be free Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:26:12 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-5279 [...] for this money, he knows not to expect too much from the state or city. As long-time reader Julia noted a few days ago, how is the state, already facing multi-billion-dollar debt, going to find more money for the MTA? [...] [...] for this money, he knows not to expect too much from the state or city. As long-time reader Julia noted a few days ago, how is the state, already facing multi-billion-dollar debt, going to find more money for the MTA? [...]

]]> By: Second Ave. Sagas | Blogging the NYC Subways » Blog Archive » As new fare plans arrive, hike honeymoon ends http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-5104 Second Ave. Sagas | Blogging the NYC Subways » Blog Archive » As new fare plans arrive, hike honeymoon ends Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:10:33 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-5104 [...] cancel those celebratory parties. As I noted, politicians shouldn’t play populist games with fare hikes when the MTA needs the money, and as Chris at East Village Idiot aptly noted, the fares for the [...] [...] cancel those celebratory parties. As I noted, politicians shouldn’t play populist games with fare hikes when the MTA needs the money, and as Chris at East Village Idiot aptly noted, the fares for the [...]

]]> By: Second Ave. Sagas | Blogging the NYC Subways » Blog Archive » Introducing the MetroCard Challenge http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-5037 Second Ave. Sagas | Blogging the NYC Subways » Blog Archive » Introducing the MetroCard Challenge Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:45:52 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-5037 [...] all of talk swirling about $2 base fares and Unlimited Ride MetroCard cost increases, I thought it would be fun to see just how much per ride I pay for my 30-day Unlimited Ride [...] [...] all of talk swirling about $2 base fares and Unlimited Ride MetroCard cost increases, I thought it would be fun to see just how much per ride I pay for my 30-day Unlimited Ride [...]

]]> By: Brooklyn James http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-5036 Brooklyn James Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:39:02 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-5036 Bloomberg is a big part of the problem -- the city simply needs to come up with money for operating costs; it's giving less than in the days of Koch. (Please don't let Bloomberg count the $2 billion the city's financing for the 7 line expansion; that's never been a priority project of transit experts.) Spitzer has already made a promise to increase the subsidy by 2010; Bloomberg hasn't. For him, everything is riding on congestion pricing. Bloomberg is a big part of the problem — the city simply needs to come up with money for operating costs; it’s giving less than in the days of Koch. (Please don’t let Bloomberg count the $2 billion the city’s financing for the 7 line expansion; that’s never been a priority project of transit experts.) Spitzer has already made a promise to increase the subsidy by 2010; Bloomberg hasn’t. For him, everything is riding on congestion pricing.

]]> By: Streetsblog » Today’s Headlines http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-5030 Streetsblog » Today’s Headlines Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:48:39 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-5030 [...] More Street Fairs and Pedicabs (News) 'Save the Fare': A Grandstanding Tradition Since 1904 (Second Ave Sagas)For G Line Riders, Even an 'F' Looks Good (NYT) Bereaved Brooklyn Brewery Founder Speaks [...] [...] More Street Fairs and Pedicabs (News) ’Save the Fare’: A Grandstanding Tradition Since 1904 (Second Ave Sagas)For G Line Riders, Even an ‘F’ Looks Good (NYT) Bereaved Brooklyn Brewery Founder Speaks [...]

]]> By: Marc Shepherd http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-5004 Marc Shepherd Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:38:44 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-5004 This is one of the best posts I've ever seen on this blog. It should be required reading for all politicians and subway riders. I think most politicians realize that the $2 base fare is symbolic, and that most riders don't actually pay this fare. In that sense, the comparison to 1948 is inexact: back then, the base fare was the only revenue lever they had. Nowadays, they can raise fares in other ways (<I>e.g.</I> the unlimited ride discount), which they will surely do. Even with a $600 million increase in state subsidies, which there is no assurance the legislature will actually approve, we are still nowhere near the level of investment that the subway system requires. Phases II thru IV of the Second Avenue Subway are so far away that many riders will never live to see them. This is one of the best posts I’ve ever seen on this blog. It should be required reading for all politicians and subway riders.

I think most politicians realize that the $2 base fare is symbolic, and that most riders don’t actually pay this fare. In that sense, the comparison to 1948 is inexact: back then, the base fare was the only revenue lever they had. Nowadays, they can raise fares in other ways (e.g. the unlimited ride discount), which they will surely do.

Even with a $600 million increase in state subsidies, which there is no assurance the legislature will actually approve, we are still nowhere near the level of investment that the subway system requires. Phases II thru IV of the Second Avenue Subway are so far away that many riders will never live to see them.

]]> By: Niccolo Machiavelli http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-4954 Niccolo Machiavelli Mon, 26 Nov 2007 00:29:24 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-4954 Great post. I'd like to see such a clear piece on how the move from Petroleum Business Tax based bonds to Fare Box Based bonds set in motion the forces of debt upon the fare payer. Complex I know, thats why I'm looking to see it. Also, conspicuously absent is any discussion of farebox operating ratio. I understand that the Chicago Transit Authority (the mass transit system not the band) controls fare by pegging the FOR at 50%. MTA is doing better than that. Maybe that would be a good way to approach price setting on the MTA. Great post. I’d like to see such a clear piece on how the move from Petroleum Business Tax based bonds to Fare Box Based bonds set in motion the forces of debt upon the fare payer. Complex I know, thats why I’m looking to see it.

Also, conspicuously absent is any discussion of farebox operating ratio. I understand that the Chicago Transit Authority (the mass transit system not the band) controls fare by pegging the FOR at 50%. MTA is doing better than that. Maybe that would be a good way to approach price setting on the MTA.

]]> By: Julia http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-4872 Julia Sun, 25 Nov 2007 02:37:36 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/21/specter-of-the-5%c2%a2-fare-haunts-the-current-fare-hike-debate/#comment-4872 Ditto. Makes me glad the MTA reads your blog! Spitzer and Silver are infuriating. How are "additional resources" for the MTA going to materialize in a state budget with a multi-billion-dollar deficit? Ditto. Makes me glad the MTA reads your blog!

Spitzer and Silver are infuriating. How are “additional resources” for the MTA going to materialize in a state budget with a multi-billion-dollar deficit?

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