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	<title>Comments on: MTA may overhaul Fulton St. Transit Hub project</title>
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	<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/01/28/mta-may-overhaul-fulton-st-transit-hub-project/</link>
	<description>A New York City Subway Blog</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Second Ave. Sagas &#124; Blogging the NYC Subways &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Maybe granite and porcelain aren&#8217;t the best choices for a subway station floor</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/01/28/mta-may-overhaul-fulton-st-transit-hub-project/#comment-21959</link>
		<dc:creator>Second Ave. Sagas &#124; Blogging the NYC Subways &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Maybe granite and porcelain aren&#8217;t the best choices for a subway station floor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/01/28/mta-may-overhaul-fulton-st-transit-hub-project/#comment-21959</guid>
		<description>[...] about the MTA&#8217;s construction budget crisis, I keep coming back to Scott&#8217;s comment about the MTA and crown jewels. How do you balance form, function and visual [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] about the MTA&#8217;s construction budget crisis, I keep coming back to Scott&#8217;s comment about the MTA and crown jewels. How do you balance form, function and visual [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Second Ave. Sagas &#124; Blogging the NYC Subways &#187; Blog Archive &#187; And now it&#8217;s gone: the Fulton St. Transit Hub dome</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/01/28/mta-may-overhaul-fulton-st-transit-hub-project/#comment-21525</link>
		<dc:creator>Second Ave. Sagas &#124; Blogging the NYC Subways &#187; Blog Archive &#187; And now it&#8217;s gone: the Fulton St. Transit Hub dome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 06:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/01/28/mta-may-overhaul-fulton-st-transit-hub-project/#comment-21525</guid>
		<description>[...] in the comments to my piece on the anticipated cuts to the Fulton St. dome, ScottE wondered if the MTA is overshooting on its plans. Does ever new project really have to be [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in the comments to my piece on the anticipated cuts to the Fulton St. dome, ScottE wondered if the MTA is overshooting on its plans. Does ever new project really have to be [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Shepherd</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/01/28/mta-may-overhaul-fulton-st-transit-hub-project/#comment-21450</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Shepherd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Despite the use of the words "crown jewel", I don't really see anything excessive in the designs of the Second Avenue Subway or the Smith–Ninth station. I think &lt;I&gt;those&lt;/I&gt; projects are being built the way you described: functional and reasonably attractive, but not extravagantly so. If they are over budget, it is not due to extravagance.

The Fulton Street Transit Center is different, because it has a &lt;I&gt;very&lt;/I&gt; large, relatively expensive element—the new building at Fulton &#38; Broadway—that does not serve a transit purpose. You could still make good arguments for the structure. After all, there are reasons why Grand Central Terminal is a treasured public landmark, but the current Penn Station is not. But when the project is over budget and keeps getting scaled back, it's a reflection on the judgment of the people who concocted it in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Despite the use of the words &#8220;crown jewel&#8221;, I don&#8217;t really see anything excessive in the designs of the Second Avenue Subway or the Smith–Ninth station. I think <i>those</i> projects are being built the way you described: functional and reasonably attractive, but not extravagantly so. If they are over budget, it is not due to extravagance.</p>
<p>The Fulton Street Transit Center is different, because it has a <i>very</i> large, relatively expensive element—the new building at Fulton &amp; Broadway—that does not serve a transit purpose. You could still make good arguments for the structure. After all, there are reasons why Grand Central Terminal is a treasured public landmark, but the current Penn Station is not. But when the project is over budget and keeps getting scaled back, it&#8217;s a reflection on the judgment of the people who concocted it in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: ScottE</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/01/28/mta-may-overhaul-fulton-st-transit-hub-project/#comment-21320</link>
		<dc:creator>ScottE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/01/28/mta-may-overhaul-fulton-st-transit-hub-project/#comment-21320</guid>
		<description>The reason everything is going over-budget is because every major transit project is supposed to be overwhelmingly extravagant.  The &lt;a href="http://enr.construction.com/news/transportation/archives/070815a.asp" rel="nofollow"&gt;Fulton Street Transit Center&lt;/a&gt; is supposed to be the "crown jewel" of Lower Manhattan, the &lt;a href="http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&#38;aid=68653" rel="nofollow"&gt;Second Avenue Subway&lt;/a&gt; is the "crown jewel" of Manhattan's East Side, and the &lt;a href="http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/26/nyct-plans-years-of-f-ing-construction-on-culver-viaduct/" rel="nofollow"&gt;rehabilitated Smith-9th Street Station&lt;/a&gt; will be the "crown jewel" of Brooklyn.

Why does everything have to be built to such excess?  If these projects were designed to be functional and somewhat visually attractive, but not cathedral-like, the MTA could save a boatload of money.  Leave the cathedral-building to the Port Authority at  the WTC PATH station.  It can be argued that this is an important, historic site in which visitors and tourists will take the time to pause, appreciate, look around, and reflect on where they are and what once happened there.   All you'll find at Fulton Street are commuters who only care about not missing the train.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason everything is going over-budget is because every major transit project is supposed to be overwhelmingly extravagant.  The <a href="http://enr.construction.com/news/transportation/archives/070815a.asp" rel="nofollow">Fulton Street Transit Center</a> is supposed to be the &#8220;crown jewel&#8221; of Lower Manhattan, the <a href="http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&amp;aid=68653" rel="nofollow">Second Avenue Subway</a> is the &#8220;crown jewel&#8221; of Manhattan&#8217;s East Side, and the <a href="http://secondavenuesagas.com/2007/11/26/nyct-plans-years-of-f-ing-construction-on-culver-viaduct/" rel="nofollow">rehabilitated Smith-9th Street Station</a> will be the &#8220;crown jewel&#8221; of Brooklyn.</p>
<p>Why does everything have to be built to such excess?  If these projects were designed to be functional and somewhat visually attractive, but not cathedral-like, the MTA could save a boatload of money.  Leave the cathedral-building to the Port Authority at  the WTC PATH station.  It can be argued that this is an important, historic site in which visitors and tourists will take the time to pause, appreciate, look around, and reflect on where they are and what once happened there.   All you&#8217;ll find at Fulton Street are commuters who only care about not missing the train.</p>
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		<title>By: twakum</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/01/28/mta-may-overhaul-fulton-st-transit-hub-project/#comment-21277</link>
		<dc:creator>twakum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:40:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/01/28/mta-may-overhaul-fulton-st-transit-hub-project/#comment-21277</guid>
		<description>It has been going on so long the Skanska employees have adopted the kind of attitude, that its "our space, get the f--- out of our way". Safety sucks. Access sucks. The area around the site needs to be more regularly policed for debris.

If I insured that job, I would have shut it down several times now...thank god I dont.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It has been going on so long the Skanska employees have adopted the kind of attitude, that its &#8220;our space, get the f&#8212; out of our way&#8221;. Safety sucks. Access sucks. The area around the site needs to be more regularly policed for debris.</p>
<p>If I insured that job, I would have shut it down several times now&#8230;thank god I dont.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Shepherd</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/01/28/mta-may-overhaul-fulton-st-transit-hub-project/#comment-21231</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Shepherd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/01/28/mta-may-overhaul-fulton-st-transit-hub-project/#comment-21231</guid>
		<description>The main issue with this project is the grand entrance facility along Broadway between Fulton and John Streets. Skeptics pointed out a long time ago that the new building wasn't &lt;I&gt;really&lt;/I&gt; needed for any transit-related purpose. And coincidentally, the project's main budget-buster has been the cost of demolishing five buildings, acquiring the Corbin Building, and relocating more than 100 small businesses.

Personally, I was always in favor of the project, but we're now at a difficult inflection point. Since the demolitions are all completed, there's now no choice but to build a transit terminal on that site. The real tragedy would be if the new building turns out just as banal as the ones it replaced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The main issue with this project is the grand entrance facility along Broadway between Fulton and John Streets. Skeptics pointed out a long time ago that the new building wasn&#8217;t <i>really</i> needed for any transit-related purpose. And coincidentally, the project&#8217;s main budget-buster has been the cost of demolishing five buildings, acquiring the Corbin Building, and relocating more than 100 small businesses.</p>
<p>Personally, I was always in favor of the project, but we&#8217;re now at a difficult inflection point. Since the demolitions are all completed, there&#8217;s now no choice but to build a transit terminal on that site. The real tragedy would be if the new building turns out just as banal as the ones it replaced.</p>
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