Comments on: Tonight, we’re gonna cram into the subway like it’s 1951 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/07/tonight-were-gonna-cram-into-the-subway-like-its-1951/ A New York City Subway Blog Mon, 13 Feb 2012 20:24:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Second Ave. Sagas | Blogging the NYC Subways » Blog Archive » Hey! MTA has the money http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/07/tonight-were-gonna-cram-into-the-subway-like-its-1951/#comment-24297 Second Ave. Sagas | Blogging the NYC Subways » Blog Archive » Hey! MTA has the money Mon, 11 Feb 2008 05:27:32 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/07/tonight-were-gonna-cram-into-the-subway-like-its-1951/#comment-24297 [...] do we get out of this? What do we — the 2.3 billion of us who ride the subways — get out of this upcoming fare [...] [...] do we get out of this? What do we — the 2.3 billion of us who ride the subways — get out of this upcoming fare [...]

]]> By: Marc Shepherd http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/07/tonight-were-gonna-cram-into-the-subway-like-its-1951/#comment-23853 Marc Shepherd Fri, 08 Feb 2008 13:57:00 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/07/tonight-were-gonna-cram-into-the-subway-like-its-1951/#comment-23853 Economic slowdown wasn't the reason why the IND Second System was never built. There were three other reasons. The first was that the government decided to subsidize roads and bridges, rather than subways. The second was that Robert Moses monopolized every dime available, and ensured that mass transit was omitted from everything he built. The third was that Moses' toll facilities generated surplus income that was plowed into more facilities of the same type. By the time Moses' policies began to fall into disfavor, the NYC Subway was already decades behind. Fares had been kept unrealistically low for too many years, leaving no funds for maintenance. No one could think seriously about expansion, when the subways we already had were in such poor shape. Obviously the IND Second System wouldn't have been built <em>exactly</em> as planned. Robert Moses didn't get to build 100% of roads and bridges the way he planned them, either. But an awful lot of it would have been built. Part of the problem today is that government doesn't invest in infrastructure on the scale it did when Moses did most of his work. We're in an era when people distrust government to do big things. Moses himself helped to create that distrust, though there are other reasons for it too, such as the modern influence of small-goverment Republicans both in Albany and in Washington. One problem still hasn't changed: unwillingness to charge the public fairly for the use of the transportation system. Spitzer's recent insistence on keeping the base subway fare at $2 — which benefits only tourists and occasional riders — is typical. Resistance to Bloomberg's congestion pricing proposal, which is itself only a bare shadow of what is <em>really</em> required, is another example. Economic slowdown wasn’t the reason why the IND Second System was never built. There were three other reasons. The first was that the government decided to subsidize roads and bridges, rather than subways. The second was that Robert Moses monopolized every dime available, and ensured that mass transit was omitted from everything he built. The third was that Moses’ toll facilities generated surplus income that was plowed into more facilities of the same type.

By the time Moses’ policies began to fall into disfavor, the NYC Subway was already decades behind. Fares had been kept unrealistically low for too many years, leaving no funds for maintenance. No one could think seriously about expansion, when the subways we already had were in such poor shape.

Obviously the IND Second System wouldn’t have been built exactly as planned. Robert Moses didn’t get to build 100% of roads and bridges the way he planned them, either. But an awful lot of it would have been built.

Part of the problem today is that government doesn’t invest in infrastructure on the scale it did when Moses did most of his work. We’re in an era when people distrust government to do big things. Moses himself helped to create that distrust, though there are other reasons for it too, such as the modern influence of small-goverment Republicans both in Albany and in Washington.

One problem still hasn’t changed: unwillingness to charge the public fairly for the use of the transportation system. Spitzer’s recent insistence on keeping the base subway fare at $2 — which benefits only tourists and occasional riders — is typical. Resistance to Bloomberg’s congestion pricing proposal, which is itself only a bare shadow of what is really required, is another example.

]]> By: Alon Levy http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/07/tonight-were-gonna-cram-into-the-subway-like-its-1951/#comment-23818 Alon Levy Fri, 08 Feb 2008 08:21:30 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/07/tonight-were-gonna-cram-into-the-subway-like-its-1951/#comment-23818 The MTA could of course put forward a new plan for adding 200 or 300 route kilometers to the system, like the Second System but adapted to the city's current needs: SAS, outbound extensions in the Bronx and Queens, a direct line to Staten Island, a new trunk line in Queens. But there's a good chance it's going to evaporate as soon as the economy slowed down, just like all the other expansion plans. The MTA could of course put forward a new plan for adding 200 or 300 route kilometers to the system, like the Second System but adapted to the city’s current needs: SAS, outbound extensions in the Bronx and Queens, a direct line to Staten Island, a new trunk line in Queens. But there’s a good chance it’s going to evaporate as soon as the economy slowed down, just like all the other expansion plans.

]]> By: Marc Shepherd http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/07/tonight-were-gonna-cram-into-the-subway-like-its-1951/#comment-23783 Marc Shepherd Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:33:48 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/07/tonight-were-gonna-cram-into-the-subway-like-its-1951/#comment-23783 What the press release lacks is any indication of what the MTA intends to do about it. Service increases have been fairly modest (except on the L and 7 lines), and the capital projects are many years from providing any relief. The MTA needs more of a vision than just a second avenue subway that's 20 years from completion. What the press release lacks is any indication of what the MTA intends to do about it. Service increases have been fairly modest (except on the L and 7 lines), and the capital projects are many years from providing any relief.

The MTA needs more of a vision than just a second avenue subway that’s 20 years from completion.

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