Comments on: Planning for a Second Ave. subway, 75 years ago http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/ A New York City Subway Blog Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:18:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: The Trainjotting Interview: SecondAvenueSagas » trainjotting.com http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-38347 The Trainjotting Interview: SecondAvenueSagas » trainjotting.com Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:55:50 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-38347 [...] the city gave out for free. They also enjoy a few of the quirky ones I’ve written about the 75-year history of the Second Ave. Subway and some of Massimo Vignelli’s designs for the system. Those are my favorite to write as [...] [...] the city gave out for free. They also enjoy a few of the quirky ones I’ve written about the 75-year history of the Second Ave. Subway and some of Massimo Vignelli’s designs for the system. Those are my favorite to write as [...]

]]> By: Alan Smithie http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-30223 Alan Smithie Sun, 16 Mar 2008 01:30:24 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-30223 Pa-Leaze! It's a joke of union size proportions. If the pace at which they "work" is any indication of when a project of this scope will be finished these guys appear to have little in no idea of what their doing. There does seem to be a foreman who points and gestures to truck drivers back ho "operators" that creep around directionless moves. I can say that, without a doubt they are most productive at making more noise moving around than any construction ever witnessed. Again, and I mean this personally, the people in charge of this mess perpetuate the stereotype that any city/union project should be outsourced to a foreign labor force that knows what the hell they are all doing, and can get it done in a timely fashion. I'm always amazed that no matter where I travel in the world, (third world countries included), roads and infrastructure projects of this size seem to get done on time, on budget with half the "workers" and a tenth of the attitude. I blame all involved in this mess of a project and would bet any amount of money this will end WAY over budget and years over schedule. Don't come to the meetings a blow smoke up the asses of the people (New York citizens) who bring legitimate concerns by placating them with lies and false promises and just do whatever the hell your going do anyway. your neighbor. Alan Smithie Pa-Leaze! It’s a joke of union size proportions. If the pace at which they “work” is any indication of when a project of this scope will be finished these guys appear to have little in no idea of what their doing. There does seem to be a foreman who points and gestures to truck drivers back ho “operators” that creep around directionless moves. I can say that, without a doubt they are most productive at making more noise moving around than any construction ever witnessed. Again, and I mean this personally, the people in charge of this mess perpetuate the stereotype that any city/union project should be outsourced to a foreign labor force that knows what the hell they are all doing, and can get it done in a timely fashion. I’m always amazed that no matter where I travel in the world, (third world countries included), roads and infrastructure projects of this size seem to get done on time, on budget with half the “workers” and a tenth of the attitude. I blame all involved in this mess of a project and would bet any amount of money this will end WAY over budget and years over schedule.
Don’t come to the meetings a blow smoke up the asses of the people (New York citizens) who bring legitimate concerns by placating them with lies and false promises and just do whatever the hell your going do anyway.

your neighbor.
Alan Smithie

]]> By: Alon Levy http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-27368 Alon Levy Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:41:33 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-27368 Some things are just pipedreams; that drawing is one of them. It's interesting in the same sense it's interesting to see how science fiction authors thought future society would look in the 1950s, or how inventors thought it would look in the 1890s and 1900s, but it never had a chance to materialize. Some things are just pipedreams; that drawing is one of them. It’s interesting in the same sense it’s interesting to see how science fiction authors thought future society would look in the 1950s, or how inventors thought it would look in the 1890s and 1900s, but it never had a chance to materialize.

]]> By: The Secret Conductor http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-27295 The Secret Conductor Sun, 24 Feb 2008 10:34:42 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-27295 Power to the MTA for actually trying to get this done, but I don't know f th whole subway will happen. I think from 125 to 57-59 will be it and the T line will never exist as the Q train will go the distance to 125. As for this drawing, it looks like something I would have made up (literally, I used to do stuff like this when I was a kid all the time). an underground roadway with some sort of sidewalk that is also underground??? lets hope that this section cut is only showing what i would call a pick up/drop off area for the cars and trains. Its nice and maybe if the city didn't focus on just the roads (thanks robert moses) maybe we would have this. It is interesting. I don't think it would have provided much relief for car traffic though, it would be just as crowded down there as it is on the surface. Power to the MTA for actually trying to get this done, but I don’t know f th whole subway will happen. I think from 125 to 57-59 will be it and the T line will never exist as the Q train will go the distance to 125.

As for this drawing, it looks like something I would have made up (literally, I used to do stuff like this when I was a kid all the time). an underground roadway with some sort of sidewalk that is also underground??? lets hope that this section cut is only showing what i would call a pick up/drop off area for the cars and trains.

Its nice and maybe if the city didn’t focus on just the roads (thanks robert moses) maybe we would have this. It is interesting.

I don’t think it would have provided much relief for car traffic though, it would be just as crowded down there as it is on the surface.

]]> By: peter knox http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-27248 peter knox Sun, 24 Feb 2008 05:31:09 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-27248 It's a lie to say the "subway slogs its way to completion." I repeat, they have not yet begun to build it. They are only preparing to build it. And I repeat, they are not building the subway. They say they are building only a 30 block stubway. What sane person can believe the MTA can build five stations and a 30 block stubway in less than 8 to 10 years? And who really believes they are ever going to build another six miles of subway in the next 50 years. It’s a lie to say the “subway slogs its way to completion.” I repeat, they have not yet begun to build it. They are only preparing to build it. And I repeat, they are not building the subway. They say they are building only a 30 block stubway. What sane person can believe the MTA can build five stations and a 30 block stubway in less than 8 to 10 years? And who really believes they are ever going to build another six miles of subway in the next 50 years.

]]> By: Alon Levy http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-27244 Alon Levy Sun, 24 Feb 2008 05:07:55 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-27244 It's not being built. They still don't have that TBM, and cut and cover is apparently verboten. It’s not being built. They still don’t have that TBM, and cut and cover is apparently verboten.

]]> By: Marc Shepherd http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-27123 Marc Shepherd Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:09:10 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-27123 I agree that it will most likely be finished late and over budget. I don't know whether the later phases will be built, but many skeptics said that <em>this phase</em> wouldn't be built either. I agree that it will most likely be finished late and over budget. I don’t know whether the later phases will be built, but many skeptics said that this phase wouldn’t be built either.

]]> By: peter knox http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-27101 peter knox Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:02:00 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-27101 They are not doing much real work on the 2nd Ave. Subway. One often sees one guy with a shovel digging a hole by himself. It's hilarious. Lots of guys eat donuts and talk, and then go for a walk. Biggest public works project going and they only have a handful of guys working at any one time. They are only moving utilities still, and they are behind schedule by at least a month. This little 5B stubway won't be ready until at least 2015. The complete subway will never be built. Soon, very soon, we will start hearing that the project is over budget and behind schedule. They are not doing much real work on the 2nd Ave. Subway. One often sees one guy with a shovel digging a hole by himself. It’s hilarious. Lots of guys eat donuts and talk, and then go for a walk. Biggest public works project going and they only have a handful of guys working at any one time. They are only moving utilities still, and they are behind schedule by at least a month. This little 5B stubway won’t be ready until at least 2015. The complete subway will never be built. Soon, very soon, we will start hearing that the project is over budget and behind schedule.

]]> By: Cap'n Transit http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-27086 Cap'n Transit Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:33:28 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-27086 Hm. The four-lane speedway and the shoving of sidewalks under the buildings and the pedestrian tunnels (replacing crosswalks, as on the Boulevard of Death) would definitely have increased car usage and made the avenue less pleasant for pedestrians. I'm wondering if the six tracks of trains would have been enough in favor of pedestrians to outweigh the massive increase in car infrastructure. Hm. The four-lane speedway and the shoving of sidewalks under the buildings and the pedestrian tunnels (replacing crosswalks, as on the Boulevard of Death) would definitely have increased car usage and made the avenue less pleasant for pedestrians. I’m wondering if the six tracks of trains would have been enough in favor of pedestrians to outweigh the massive increase in car infrastructure.

]]> By: Streetsblog » Today’s Headlines http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-27082 Streetsblog » Today’s Headlines Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:54:32 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/02/21/planning-for-a-second-ave-subway-75-years-ago/#comment-27082 [...] Would Work, "If Done Right" (Gotham Gazette)75-Year-Old 2nd Ave Subway Drawing Unearthed (2nd Ave Sagas)State Sen. Eric Adams Called Out for "Empty" Grandstanding (NYT)LIRR Has Trouble Handling [...] [...] Would Work, "If Done Right" (Gotham Gazette)75-Year-Old 2nd Ave Subway Drawing Unearthed (2nd Ave Sagas)State Sen. Eric Adams Called Out for "Empty" Grandstanding (NYT)LIRR Has Trouble Handling [...]

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