Comments on: Congestion pricing fate could depend on a ‘transit lockbox’

By: Benjamin

Benjamin — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:52:34 +0000

Paulb says it all – I can’t say it any better myself. Not knowledgeable enough about John Liu’s politics, I can’t really say anything other than I agree with the princple of a lock box.

By: paulb

paulb — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 01:36:27 +0000

For an actual long look at traffic in London during one particular Monday morning rush hour there is the following entertaining (MHO) video from the BBC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvlCwvrzsRg

(If the link doesn’t work search YouTube with the terms “Top Gear BBC London Race.”)

I have done a quick search for articles about the London CP experience and not found anything that seems to unambiguously report significantly less or speedier traffic there as a result of CP. I know that London has restricted bus lanes, which may be a reason for the faster bus movement. The articles I have seen emphasize revenue, and I haven’t quibbled there. I just do not believe that CP is going to significantly speed up traffic during daytime business hours in Manhattan. What can I say? If it passes and I’m proven wrong I’ll say, hey, NYers surprised me, I was wrong, but I have lived in NYC my whole life, which is getting on to more years now than I am going to say, I’ve been a driver and a subway user and a cyclist, and I don’t believe the “projections.”

That CP could raise a lot of money, of that I have no doubt.

By: Alon Levy

Alon Levy — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:38:21 +0000

Paul, you can see what congestion pricing did in London. Traffic decreased, as promised; congestion decreased so much the buses were running too fast to be on schedule.

Also, at least according to plaNYC, only one sixth of the people in New York who drive into Manhattan do so because of lack of transit options. Drivers in New York are overwhelmingly people who commute between two outer boroughs, reflecting the fact that cars are better for point-to-point travel while heavy rail is hub-and-spoke. Unless they decide to go from Brooklyn to Queens via Manhattan, they’re not going to be penalized for driving.

By: Marc Shepherd

Marc Shepherd — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:48:16 +0000

I certainly agree that CP will increase the cost of doing business in NYC, because there are many drivers who have no realistic mass transit option, and who will continue to drive despite the higher cost. Unfortunately, as you say, money for mass transit has to come from somewhere.

It is entirely possible that CP will not noticeably reduce daytime traffic congestion, but at least it will generate a dependable source of funds for capital improvements.

By: paulb

paulb — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:33:07 +0000

If I had any money to bet I’d be glad to put down some that if congestion pricing passes as it is now proposed it will not, after a certain adjustment period goes by, noticeably reduce daytime weekday congestion in Manhattan. I really think it’s another road use tax that will raise the cost of doing business in NYC, not reduce it. All the “projections” on Earth won’t make me believe what CP’s proponents claim until I observe it with my own eyes. But that doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Money for the subways and buses has to come from somewhere.

By: Cap'n Transit

Cap'n Transit — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:39:56 +0000

I agree that that's uncharacteristically sane and practical of Liu. Let's hope he doesn't retreat into denying the personhood of straphangers or lame complaints about the political consequences of mentioning bridge tolls.