Comments on: Inside the circumferential subway route plans http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/ A New York City Subway Blog Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:04:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog » Blog Archive » The 1960s subway expansion that never came to be http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-36730 Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog » Blog Archive » The 1960s subway expansion that never came to be Wed, 04 Jun 2008 04:52:52 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-36730 [...] during his State of the MTA speech. The plan focused around the Regional Plan Association’s circumferental subway route. This line, using a mix of MTA rights of way and pre-existing tracks would connect to 19 subway [...] [...] during his State of the MTA speech. The plan focused around the Regional Plan Association’s circumferental subway route. This line, using a mix of MTA rights of way and pre-existing tracks would connect to 19 subway [...]

]]> By: Second Ave. Sagas | Blogging the NYC Subways » Blog Archive » Three weeks alter, Sander’s words ring hollow http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-31300 Second Ave. Sagas | Blogging the NYC Subways » Blog Archive » Three weeks alter, Sander’s words ring hollow Thu, 27 Mar 2008 04:08:15 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-31300 [...] Director Elliot Sander, we were so full of hope and optimism. We were even discussing that famous circumferential subway line as though it would actually become a reality before [...] [...] Director Elliot Sander, we were so full of hope and optimism. We were even discussing that famous circumferential subway line as though it would actually become a reality before [...]

]]> By: Jason http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-29647 Jason Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:56:30 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-29647 I think this is a great and really important plan! But I do have some concern over impacts to both freight access on Long Island and capacity of the Hells Gate bridge. If there are 4 tracks on the bridge, 2 for rapid transit and 2 for trains, and if full flyovers are built at the junctions, it probably could work out. But the way I see it, you almost need 3 tracks for the rest of the alignment in the Queens and Brooklyn, 2 for rapid transit and 1 for freight. Otherwise the transit won't run at night or freight won't run at all. If freight doesn't run on the rails, it will run on the roads...in trucks. If a cross-harbor freight rail tunnel is built, there will be a lot more demand for that right of way. I think this is a great and really important plan!

But I do have some concern over impacts to both freight access on Long Island and capacity of the Hells Gate bridge.

If there are 4 tracks on the bridge, 2 for rapid transit and 2 for trains, and if full flyovers are built at the junctions, it probably could work out.

But the way I see it, you almost need 3 tracks for the rest of the alignment in the Queens and Brooklyn, 2 for rapid transit and 1 for freight. Otherwise the transit won’t run at night or freight won’t run at all.

If freight doesn’t run on the rails, it will run on the roads…in trucks. If a cross-harbor freight rail tunnel is built, there will be a lot more demand for that right of way.

]]> By: Second Ave. Sagas | Blogging the NYC Subways » Blog Archive » MTA: No, really, we’ll build something at Fulton St. http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-29476 Second Ave. Sagas | Blogging the NYC Subways » Blog Archive » MTA: No, really, we’ll build something at Fulton St. Mon, 10 Mar 2008 04:01:56 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-29476 [...] last week’s discussions about circumferential subway lines of the future, let’s step back and look at something on the MTA’s table that the agency can’t [...] [...] last week’s discussions about circumferential subway lines of the future, let’s step back and look at something on the MTA’s table that the agency can’t [...]

]]> By: Kevin Walsh http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-29410 Kevin Walsh Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:20:44 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-29410 For a look at the Bay Ridge/ENY Branch as it is now, check this page http://oldnyc.com/bayridge/contents/bayridge.html www.forgotten-ny.com For a look at the Bay Ridge/ENY Branch as it is now, check this page

http://oldnyc.com/bayridge/contents/bayridge.html

http://www.forgotten-ny.com

]]> By: Alon Levy http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-29263 Alon Levy Fri, 07 Mar 2008 03:02:00 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-29263 Amtrak never runs more than one train in each direction per half hour from New York to New Haven. The planned Metro-North connection to Penn Station to my knowledge won't involve a station in Queens. Either way, current headways on the New Haven Line peak at 6 minutes; even if the entire traffic will shift to Penn Station, this will represent a total of 12 tph while commuter rail lines typically allow for 15. At night there will be more than enough room for freight trains. Amtrak never runs more than one train in each direction per half hour from New York to New Haven.

The planned Metro-North connection to Penn Station to my knowledge won’t involve a station in Queens. Either way, current headways on the New Haven Line peak at 6 minutes; even if the entire traffic will shift to Penn Station, this will represent a total of 12 tph while commuter rail lines typically allow for 15. At night there will be more than enough room for freight trains.

]]> By: Angus Grieve-Smith http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-29256 Angus Grieve-Smith Fri, 07 Mar 2008 02:11:02 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-29256 Marc, the only place I've seen "lightly used" near "Hell Gate" is on Michael Frumin's own page. Someone ought to be able to get some usage statistics, and some idea of how many trains Metro-North might be sending over the bridge. If it turns out that there isn't enough room for rapid transit, though, the Metro-North connection would provide a decent route from the Bronx to Queens, with the ability to transfer to the #6 train at multiple points and to the #2 and #5 at 180th Street, and to the Pelham Parkway BRT when that happens. In Queens, Metro-North passengers would be able to transfer to the #7 at Woodside and the E, V and R at Sunnyside. If the frequency and prices are reasonable, it should be fine. The "X Train" could follow the NY Connecting Railroad as far as 30th Avenue (Boulevard Gardens/St. Michael's Cemetary) and there's plenty of room for a nice big station to transfer between the X and Metro-North trains. The X could turn east along the BQE and Astoria Boulevard to La Guardia. Marc, the only place I’ve seen “lightly used” near “Hell Gate” is on Michael Frumin’s own page. Someone ought to be able to get some usage statistics, and some idea of how many trains Metro-North might be sending over the bridge.

If it turns out that there isn’t enough room for rapid transit, though, the Metro-North connection would provide a decent route from the Bronx to Queens, with the ability to transfer to the #6 train at multiple points and to the #2 and #5 at 180th Street, and to the Pelham Parkway BRT when that happens. In Queens, Metro-North passengers would be able to transfer to the #7 at Woodside and the E, V and R at Sunnyside. If the frequency and prices are reasonable, it should be fine.

The “X Train” could follow the NY Connecting Railroad as far as 30th Avenue (Boulevard Gardens/St. Michael’s Cemetary) and there’s plenty of room for a nice big station to transfer between the X and Metro-North trains. The X could turn east along the BQE and Astoria Boulevard to La Guardia.

]]> By: Kid Twist http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-29234 Kid Twist Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:42:54 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-29234 I think the X might also make it possible for people to avoid the more crowded lines into Manhattan by giving them a fast way to get to an emptier route. If you live in Queens and want to get downtown, you just might find it worthwhile to take the X to the J instead of first crowding into one of the Queens Boulevard trains and then changing in the city to reach Lower Manhattan. I think the X might also make it possible for people to avoid the more crowded lines into Manhattan by giving them a fast way to get to an emptier route. If you live in Queens and want to get downtown, you just might find it worthwhile to take the X to the J instead of first crowding into one of the Queens Boulevard trains and then changing in the city to reach Lower Manhattan.

]]> By: Alfred Beach http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-29232 Alfred Beach Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:05:21 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-29232 Kevin wrote: "The X would act as a feeder line shuttling commuters in underserved areas to the primary east-west lines to get into the city. " The new line might bring more people into manhattan, but I see it as keeping more people out of manhattan who are trying to get around in Brooklyn. For me to get from downtown Brooklyn to home in Bushwick, I take the F into manhattan and change to the JMZ. If there were better way to do that *without* going all the way into manhattan, I'd use that instead. My thinking is that the number of additional Manhattan bound riders the X would create would be equal to the number of Brooklyn bound riders the X would keep out of Manhattan. Kevin wrote: “The X would act as a feeder line shuttling commuters in underserved areas to the primary east-west lines to get into the city. ”

The new line might bring more people into manhattan, but I see it as keeping more people out of manhattan who are trying to get around in Brooklyn. For me to get from downtown Brooklyn to home in Bushwick, I take the F into manhattan and change to the JMZ. If there were better way to do that *without* going all the way into manhattan, I’d use that instead.

My thinking is that the number of additional Manhattan bound riders the X would create would be equal to the number of Brooklyn bound riders the X would keep out of Manhattan.

]]> By: Marc Shepherd http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-29212 Marc Shepherd Thu, 06 Mar 2008 15:51:25 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/03/06/inside-the-plans-for-the-circumferential-subway-route/#comment-29212 Whenever someone refers to the Hell Gate route, it seems invariably prefaced by the words "lightly used". If you assume that the fourth track is restored, and that freight traffic can be scheduled for off-peak hours, I would think that there's more than enough capacity to dedicate two tracks to rapid transit. Whenever someone refers to the Hell Gate route, it seems invariably prefaced by the words “lightly used”. If you assume that the fourth track is restored, and that freight traffic can be scheduled for off-peak hours, I would think that there’s more than enough capacity to dedicate two tracks to rapid transit.

]]>