Comments on: Jump turnstile; pay a higher fine

By: Harper

Harper — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 03:14:30 +0000

yes it does

By: Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog » Blog Archive » MTA Board to approve fare-jumping fine increase

Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:14:01 +0000

[...] up on an item from May, the New York Post reports that the MTA Board will approve an increase in fare-evasion fines from [...]

By: herenthere

herenthere — Thu, 29 May 2008 02:10:48 +0000

I definitely think they should raise the penalties much higher-the higher the opportunity cost, the less likely someone will commit the crime (like Singapore’s death penalty for drug traffickers.) But the MTA also needs more transit cops to patrol and administer the fines-otherwise no enforcement = this is just another PR “stunt.”

By: Marc Shepherd

Marc Shepherd — Wed, 28 May 2008 16:52:47 +0000

I’m just making a comparison. Fare evasion and vandalism should both be punished. But in relation to the damage they cause, either we’re grossly over-punishing fare evasion, or we’re grossly under-punishing vandalism. My guess is the latter, given that the fare-evasion penalty is 30 times the damage, but the vandalism penalty is less than the damage.

You could make other comparisons. For instance, the penalty for under-paying your taxes isn’t anywhere near 30 times the amount you owed. I think it’s also relevant (though not dispositive) that fare evasion sometimes has an innocent explanation, but vandalism never does.

My guess is that the economics were out of whack to begin with, and they ought to fix it by raising the fine for vandalims much more dramatically.

By: Benjamin Kabak

Benjamin Kabak — Wed, 28 May 2008 14:08:02 +0000

It was $60 in 1988; it’s still $60. Wouldn’t economics demand a price adjustment?

I know a lot of fare-jumpers do so out of supposedly innocent reasons, but that doesn’t make it any more acceptable.

By: Benjamin Kabak

Benjamin Kabak — Wed, 28 May 2008 14:07:25 +0000

If all they’re doing is increasing fines already on the books to match inflation, how is that unnecessary legal bureaucracy? It’s just keeping up with the times.

By: Marc Shepherd

Marc Shepherd — Wed, 28 May 2008 14:06:32 +0000

The $60 fine for fare-evasion is high enough already. That’s thirty times the fare—surely enough to be a significant deterrent. Also, riders sometimes jump the turnstile for “innocent” reasons (e.g., the card reader doesn’t work), but are forced to pay the fine anyway.

On the other hand, the penalty for vandals is only $100, but the damage they cause surely costs the MTA a lot more than that to repair. And there’s never an innocent explanation for vandalism.

By: ScottE

ScottE — Wed, 28 May 2008 13:58:31 +0000

Aren’t there already city and state laws about brandishing weapons, carrying explosives, commiting vandalism, and obstructing traffic? Even fare evasion probably could fall under the general category of trespassing.

Except for perhaps the “taking up two seats” rule, a lot of this just sounds like extra, unnecessary legal bureaucracy to me.