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	<title>Comments on: Above-ground Fulton St. hub remains in limbo</title>
	<atom:link href="http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/12/22/above-ground-portions-of-fulton-st-remain-in-limbo/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/12/22/above-ground-portions-of-fulton-st-remain-in-limbo/</link>
	<description>A New York City Subway Blog</description>
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		<title>By: AlexB</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/12/22/above-ground-portions-of-fulton-st-remain-in-limbo/#comment-57929</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 07:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=1846#comment-57929</guid>
		<description>As one of the most important intersections downtown, it matters a great deal what gets built above the underground passageways.  This is even more true now that the PATH station has been whittled away.  The subway system as a whole is almost entirely devoid of any architectural efforts besides some occasionally nice decorations.  That oculus was going to be a nice downtown landmark and a clever way to bring light into the subway. New yorkers are too used to the subway being a purely utilitarian experience.  Build it (and the PATH station) right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As one of the most important intersections downtown, it matters a great deal what gets built above the underground passageways.  This is even more true now that the PATH station has been whittled away.  The subway system as a whole is almost entirely devoid of any architectural efforts besides some occasionally nice decorations.  That oculus was going to be a nice downtown landmark and a clever way to bring light into the subway. New yorkers are too used to the subway being a purely utilitarian experience.  Build it (and the PATH station) right.</p>
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		<title>By: rhywun</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/12/22/above-ground-portions-of-fulton-st-remain-in-limbo/#comment-57922</link>
		<dc:creator>rhywun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 02:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=1846#comment-57922</guid>
		<description>I have no problem with that. Just nothing as ghastly as the WTC mall was. Anyway, It&#039;s not a grand terminal or anything - I never understood the &quot;need&quot; for this majestic space they originally proposed in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no problem with that. Just nothing as ghastly as the WTC mall was. Anyway, It&#8217;s not a grand terminal or anything &#8211; I never understood the &#8220;need&#8221; for this majestic space they originally proposed in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/12/22/above-ground-portions-of-fulton-st-remain-in-limbo/#comment-57916</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 23:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=1846#comment-57916</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d rather see a shopping center put on top of the transit center to raise some additional revenue.  Other countries do it, why shouldn&#039;t we?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d rather see a shopping center put on top of the transit center to raise some additional revenue.  Other countries do it, why shouldn&#8217;t we?</p>
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		<title>By: rhywun</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/12/22/above-ground-portions-of-fulton-st-remain-in-limbo/#comment-57908</link>
		<dc:creator>rhywun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=1846#comment-57908</guid>
		<description>Maybe the progress is too slow for the naked eye to catch, like rotting fruit... Get a time-lapse camera down there to see if anything is happening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the progress is too slow for the naked eye to catch, like rotting fruit&#8230; Get a time-lapse camera down there to see if anything is happening.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott C</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/12/22/above-ground-portions-of-fulton-st-remain-in-limbo/#comment-57905</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=1846#comment-57905</guid>
		<description>Still not sure what work is going on underground.  I am in the Fulton Street complex every day and have not seen any work underground in months.  I guess they are still technically building the Dey street corridor, but nothing else is going on, that is for sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still not sure what work is going on underground.  I am in the Fulton Street complex every day and have not seen any work underground in months.  I guess they are still technically building the Dey street corridor, but nothing else is going on, that is for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Shepherd</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/12/22/above-ground-portions-of-fulton-st-remain-in-limbo/#comment-57904</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Shepherd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=1846#comment-57904</guid>
		<description>A structure will be built at Fulton St., though it may take a while. They won&#039;t leave a giant hole in the ground forever.

You&#039;re wrong about your eminent domain analysis. Current law gives the government a pretty wide berth to do as it pleases with property seized via eminent domain. Anyhow, the injuries of the displaced businesses are no longer redressable, so the issue is legally moot. Nothing a court does now can put things back the way they were. What&#039;s more, it was always intended that there would be commercial space there in some form or another.

You are right about the bigger story later in the article, though wrong about the interpretation. It&#039;s not that they&#039;ve de-prioritized ESA and SAS. They&#039;re the same priority they always were: important, but not as much as keeping the existing system running. If the fools in the legislature fail to fund the MTA properly, management will choose to maintain the current system. What else could they do? You don&#039;t build a new house if you can&#039;t afford upkeep on the house you&#039;ve already got.

The more interesting point is that Sander is putting a high priority on getting the rest of the system ready for CBTC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A structure will be built at Fulton St., though it may take a while. They won&#8217;t leave a giant hole in the ground forever.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re wrong about your eminent domain analysis. Current law gives the government a pretty wide berth to do as it pleases with property seized via eminent domain. Anyhow, the injuries of the displaced businesses are no longer redressable, so the issue is legally moot. Nothing a court does now can put things back the way they were. What&#8217;s more, it was always intended that there would be commercial space there in some form or another.</p>
<p>You are right about the bigger story later in the article, though wrong about the interpretation. It&#8217;s not that they&#8217;ve de-prioritized ESA and SAS. They&#8217;re the same priority they always were: important, but not as much as keeping the existing system running. If the fools in the legislature fail to fund the MTA properly, management will choose to maintain the current system. What else could they do? You don&#8217;t build a new house if you can&#8217;t afford upkeep on the house you&#8217;ve already got.</p>
<p>The more interesting point is that Sander is putting a high priority on getting the rest of the system ready for CBTC.</p>
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		<title>By: rhywun</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/12/22/above-ground-portions-of-fulton-st-remain-in-limbo/#comment-57903</link>
		<dc:creator>rhywun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=1846#comment-57903</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d rather have Pizza Hut and Ranch One back at this point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d rather have Pizza Hut and Ranch One back at this point.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott E</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/12/22/above-ground-portions-of-fulton-st-remain-in-limbo/#comment-57900</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=1846#comment-57900</guid>
		<description>I think you need to cross out the &quot;W&quot; and &quot;Z&quot; from that graphic above the article!

Anyway, I think what Horodniceanu meant when he said the design would be &quot;Similar to what we have seen&quot;, he was referring to what we&#039;ve seen at the corner of Fulton and Broadway for the last year or so: a barricaded construction site where buildings used to stand.  I believe the reason for not considering a commercial structure above the station is that the property was taken by eminent domain, restricting its use for public (not private, commercial) purposes.  At this point, though, the lawsuits that would arise from &quot;abusing&quot; eminent domain (if the commercial option is implemented) would likely be better than the costs of deferring the project for so many years.

An interesting quote a bit farther down the article, when he references mega projects like Second Ave Subway and East Side Access -- they&#039;re not quite the priority they once were.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you need to cross out the &#8220;W&#8221; and &#8220;Z&#8221; from that graphic above the article!</p>
<p>Anyway, I think what Horodniceanu meant when he said the design would be &#8220;Similar to what we have seen&#8221;, he was referring to what we&#8217;ve seen at the corner of Fulton and Broadway for the last year or so: a barricaded construction site where buildings used to stand.  I believe the reason for not considering a commercial structure above the station is that the property was taken by eminent domain, restricting its use for public (not private, commercial) purposes.  At this point, though, the lawsuits that would arise from &#8220;abusing&#8221; eminent domain (if the commercial option is implemented) would likely be better than the costs of deferring the project for so many years.</p>
<p>An interesting quote a bit farther down the article, when he references mega projects like Second Ave Subway and East Side Access &#8212; they&#8217;re not quite the priority they once were.</p>
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