Comments on: Whither Hudson Yards, again?

By: Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog » Blog Archive » » Will the stimulus save 7 extension stop?

Mon, 02 Feb 2009 05:48:20 +0000

[...] To recap, the 7 line extension is a city-funded project that extends the 7 line from Times Square west along 41st St. and then south along 11th Ave. to 34th St. The planned development at Hudson Yards spurred on the city investment in this project, and while talks in the dealare scheduled for Monday, it is resting on unstable ground. [...]

By: Alon Levy

Alon Levy — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 05:27:45 +0000

Marc, I’m not sure why, but every time someone criticizes a specific development idea, you make general points about slums and blight. It’s possible to redevelop areas without throwing people out of their homes or arbitrarily seizing land. This is what’s happening with most upzoning schemes in New York. Because they don’t destroy, they’re less controversial; even when they are, as with the 125th Street rezoning, the most vocal opponents tend to be not community groups, but power brokers who feel they didn’t get their share.

Projects like Atlantic Yards, Hudson Yards, and the Columbia expansion aren’t your typical “building things for the public.” That is why they’re causing so much uproar, and why the developers responsible feel they have to hire PR firms to engage in astroturf; in some instances, like Atlantic Yards, the PR people involved even establish their bona fides by opposing the controversial renewal projects that they’re not paid to advance.

By: Marc Shepherd

Marc Shepherd — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:14:35 +0000

Then I suppose nothing should ever be built for the public…right?

By: rhywun

rhywun — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 05:57:29 +0000

The excuse that “this is better than what’s there now” has been used to justify the most heinous examples of eminent domain over the years. The Atlantic Yards project is a recent example. These things go up because the people in charge claim that the land they want to grab is “blighted” (i.e. slums). The people who’ve invested their lives there might think otherwise.

By: JP

JP — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:33:56 +0000

Oh well. Better to have them bail out of the deal now, than sign contracts to move forward and then go bankrupt while in the middle of construction.

By: Alon Levy

Alon Levy — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 22:43:35 +0000

Penn Station is considered inferior for esthetic rather than functional reasons.

By: Alon Levy

Alon Levy — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 22:38:35 +0000

There’s no reason the growth will occur on the Far West Side, not when both the neighborhood and the planned subway stop will be dominated by a convention center. Neighborhood revitalization doesn’t occur randomly. It can occur via spillover from a nearby area, but this won’t happen if the subway doesn’t connect the Hudson Yards area with Hell’s Kitchen. It can gentrify because of its low housing costs , but this requires old buildings, not new ones, which are not yet amortized. Its own residents can become richer, but the Hudson Yards area has no residents to begin with.

By: Alon Levy

Alon Levy — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 22:29:08 +0000

Jane Jacobs described Lincoln Center area as a place barren of any cultural attraction outside the complex itself, where nobody hung out on the street except “bums” (her word). Nowadays it is somewhat better, but it’s taken the area decades to recover.

I’m generally skeptical of monolithic development projects. They’re good for lobbyists, but nor for urban residents. The liveliest streets and neighborhoods tend to have mixed uses and mixed ownership, and evolve organically. You can see it especially when there’s a monolith right next to a more organic neighborhood. For example, in Morningside Heights, the busiest blocks are located away from campus; the streets abutting Columbia, Barnard, and St. Luke’s are pretty barren. Similarly, in East Midtown, First Avenue has little apart from luxury condos and embassies, while Second Avenue is teeming with stores.

By: Marc Shepherd

Marc Shepherd — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:39:27 +0000

It is not dispositive that you can name one or two people who thought Lincoln Center made its neighborhood worse. As far as I can tell, it’s not a commonly held view. Most people I know who were around at the time have no love lost for Lincoln Square. A counter-example would be the current Penn Station, which unlike Lincoln Center is widely considered inferior to what was there before.

By: rhywun

rhywun — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:14:58 +0000

Not only is this extension a waste, it’s a form of corporate welfare. Whoever eventually buys the Hudson Yards is going to reap a vastly larger profit with the subway extension we’re giving them. Oh well, that’s par for the course in NYC.