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	<title>Comments on: Congestion pricing money New York&#8217;s for the taking</title>
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	<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/14/congestion-pricing-money-new-yorks-for-the-taking/</link>
	<description>A New York City Subway Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Reframing the congestion pricing debate :: Second Ave. Sagas &#124; A New York City Subway Blog</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/14/congestion-pricing-money-new-yorks-for-the-taking/#comment-61086</link>
		<dc:creator>Reframing the congestion pricing debate :: Second Ave. Sagas &#124; A New York City Subway Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 04:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2902#comment-61086</guid>
		<description>[...] St. south. The system would be set up by a $350 million grant from the feds — a grant which is still available — and the projected $400-$500 million in revenue would head into the MTA&#8217;s coffers for the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] St. south. The system would be set up by a $350 million grant from the feds — a grant which is still available — and the projected $400-$500 million in revenue would head into the MTA&#8217;s coffers for the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Secret Conductor</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/14/congestion-pricing-money-new-yorks-for-the-taking/#comment-61016</link>
		<dc:creator>The Secret Conductor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 02:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2902#comment-61016</guid>
		<description>wow the money is still available? great! I am for congestion pricing (although not everything about it like tolls on the Manhattan-Bronx bridges) and I hope this means we can work out our differences and get this going.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow the money is still available? great! I am for congestion pricing (although not everything about it like tolls on the Manhattan-Bronx bridges) and I hope this means we can work out our differences and get this going.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/14/congestion-pricing-money-new-yorks-for-the-taking/#comment-61007</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 May 2009 15:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2902#comment-61007</guid>
		<description>And what about the privacy issues that now the govt will know where every car is at all times in Manhattan? Just time in a plate or owners name and you&#039;ll get a dot saying where that car is at the moment, +/- 2 or 3 blocks accuracy. No legal protections from this information being sold to the highest bidder either, no 4th amendment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And what about the privacy issues that now the govt will know where every car is at all times in Manhattan? Just time in a plate or owners name and you&#8217;ll get a dot saying where that car is at the moment, +/- 2 or 3 blocks accuracy. No legal protections from this information being sold to the highest bidder either, no 4th amendment.</p>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/14/congestion-pricing-money-new-yorks-for-the-taking/#comment-61006</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 May 2009 15:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2902#comment-61006</guid>
		<description>I like pieces of Gridlock Sam&#039;s plan. I&#039;d quickly bargain away the tolls on the Throgs Neck and Whitestone bridges if that would get votes out of Bronx and Queens politicians. And the tolls to the Rockaways just aren&#039;t fair. 

But I&#039;m certainly not ready to drop the tolls from the Triboro -- isn&#039;t that the Robert F Kennedy Bridge now anyway? It must be the biggest moneymaker in the system. In fact, I wouldn&#039;t drop ANY of the tolls into Manhattan, not even into Inwood-Washington Heights.

Funny to see that Sam wants to rebuild the Belt Parkway to allow trucks. I&#039;ve been thinking we will need to rebuild the Belt Parkway to put it atop levees. 

When the greenhouse gases from vehicle pollution cause the Greenland ice cap to melt and the sea level to rise, much of Brooklyn will join Atlantis. Or join Amsterdam if we put levees around the city.

Meanwhile Sadik-Kahn is doing a great job of reducing traffic congestion in Midtown by taking back the streets for pedestrians and bike lanes. Usually people talk about &quot;congestion&quot; and only mean cars, because drivers are important. But actually, the sidewalk congestion caused by wide streets and narrow sidewalks oppresses many more people than the excess of cars on the road. Let&#039;s act like a democracy and take care of the sidewalk congestion for the majority of New Yorkers who walk, ride transit, and bike. Let Jersey worry about the cars and their drivers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like pieces of Gridlock Sam&#8217;s plan. I&#8217;d quickly bargain away the tolls on the Throgs Neck and Whitestone bridges if that would get votes out of Bronx and Queens politicians. And the tolls to the Rockaways just aren&#8217;t fair. </p>
<p>But I&#8217;m certainly not ready to drop the tolls from the Triboro &#8212; isn&#8217;t that the Robert F Kennedy Bridge now anyway? It must be the biggest moneymaker in the system. In fact, I wouldn&#8217;t drop ANY of the tolls into Manhattan, not even into Inwood-Washington Heights.</p>
<p>Funny to see that Sam wants to rebuild the Belt Parkway to allow trucks. I&#8217;ve been thinking we will need to rebuild the Belt Parkway to put it atop levees. </p>
<p>When the greenhouse gases from vehicle pollution cause the Greenland ice cap to melt and the sea level to rise, much of Brooklyn will join Atlantis. Or join Amsterdam if we put levees around the city.</p>
<p>Meanwhile Sadik-Kahn is doing a great job of reducing traffic congestion in Midtown by taking back the streets for pedestrians and bike lanes. Usually people talk about &#8220;congestion&#8221; and only mean cars, because drivers are important. But actually, the sidewalk congestion caused by wide streets and narrow sidewalks oppresses many more people than the excess of cars on the road. Let&#8217;s act like a democracy and take care of the sidewalk congestion for the majority of New Yorkers who walk, ride transit, and bike. Let Jersey worry about the cars and their drivers.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/14/congestion-pricing-money-new-yorks-for-the-taking/#comment-60993</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 06:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2902#comment-60993</guid>
		<description>Some of the aspects of the plan, like focusing on charges into Manhattan, are good. Others are simply mad - $100 for through-trucks, freeway widening, and making the Verrazano free all come like proposals made by outer borough NIMBYs rather than by people who want to reduce traffic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of the aspects of the plan, like focusing on charges into Manhattan, are good. Others are simply mad &#8211; $100 for through-trucks, freeway widening, and making the Verrazano free all come like proposals made by outer borough NIMBYs rather than by people who want to reduce traffic.</p>
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		<title>By: Bern Grush</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/14/congestion-pricing-money-new-yorks-for-the-taking/#comment-60991</link>
		<dc:creator>Bern Grush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 04:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2902#comment-60991</guid>
		<description>We all know that congestion pricing is not dead in NYC, and we also know that the way it was proposed a couple of years ago was a pretty brutal approach that in some key ways mimicked the London system – a flat-rate cordon that is expensive, inflexible and while effective at first has over six years lost almost all of it absolute benefits. To be cautious, the assumption is that if it had never been installed, London would be even worse-off (relatively and absolutely), but the point is that a blunt, fixed-rate cordon is a brain-dead approach, that I would not even wish on Tehran or Pyongyang.

There is another message, here, that LaHood is giving us. The money that was ear marked for NYC two years back was forfeited after the State legislature voted against it by simply not voting at all (talk about cowardice!). But now LaHood says: “The money … is still at the Department...” Well, not exactly just sitting there in a shoe box waiting for NYC. What is happening, is that LaHood needs to find someone bold enough to start taking the advice of the National Surface Transportation Infrastructure Finance Commission, and start charging mileage-based fees. Mayor Bloomberg is just the man.

So what NYC needs to do is to think about a proper mileage-based scheme, instead of gantry-madness. One that can eventually manage congestion in all five boroughs, with lower rates outside Manhattan. One that would even allow Manhattan to sell gas without a gas-tax to participants in a proper ‘pay-for-use’ system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We all know that congestion pricing is not dead in NYC, and we also know that the way it was proposed a couple of years ago was a pretty brutal approach that in some key ways mimicked the London system – a flat-rate cordon that is expensive, inflexible and while effective at first has over six years lost almost all of it absolute benefits. To be cautious, the assumption is that if it had never been installed, London would be even worse-off (relatively and absolutely), but the point is that a blunt, fixed-rate cordon is a brain-dead approach, that I would not even wish on Tehran or Pyongyang.</p>
<p>There is another message, here, that LaHood is giving us. The money that was ear marked for NYC two years back was forfeited after the State legislature voted against it by simply not voting at all (talk about cowardice!). But now LaHood says: “The money … is still at the Department&#8230;” Well, not exactly just sitting there in a shoe box waiting for NYC. What is happening, is that LaHood needs to find someone bold enough to start taking the advice of the National Surface Transportation Infrastructure Finance Commission, and start charging mileage-based fees. Mayor Bloomberg is just the man.</p>
<p>So what NYC needs to do is to think about a proper mileage-based scheme, instead of gantry-madness. One that can eventually manage congestion in all five boroughs, with lower rates outside Manhattan. One that would even allow Manhattan to sell gas without a gas-tax to participants in a proper ‘pay-for-use’ system.</p>
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		<title>By: Bern Grush</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/14/congestion-pricing-money-new-yorks-for-the-taking/#comment-60989</link>
		<dc:creator>Bern Grush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 04:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2902#comment-60989</guid>
		<description>It is not necessary to spend $350M on cameras and tolling technology. With anonymous, financial-grade GPS meters that provide several other services (parking, insurance, rewards) the cost of metering for road-use can be heavily subsidized. New technology, designed for mileage-based, wide area tolling has changed the picture completely. Even enforcement is far easier and cheaper. Most of the $350M can be turned back to transit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not necessary to spend $350M on cameras and tolling technology. With anonymous, financial-grade GPS meters that provide several other services (parking, insurance, rewards) the cost of metering for road-use can be heavily subsidized. New technology, designed for mileage-based, wide area tolling has changed the picture completely. Even enforcement is far easier and cheaper. Most of the $350M can be turned back to transit.</p>
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		<title>By: Think twice</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/14/congestion-pricing-money-new-yorks-for-the-taking/#comment-60976</link>
		<dc:creator>Think twice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 21:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2902#comment-60976</guid>
		<description>Bloomberg and Sadik-Khan need to seriously look at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gridlocksam.com/congpri.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Gridlock&quot; Sam Schwartz&#039;s version of Congestion Pricing&lt;/a&gt; if they&#039;re going to convince outerborough pols to side with the plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bloomberg and Sadik-Khan need to seriously look at <a href="http://www.gridlocksam.com/congpri.pdf" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Gridlock&#8221; Sam Schwartz&#8217;s version of Congestion Pricing</a> if they&#8217;re going to convince outerborough pols to side with the plan.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Higashide</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/14/congestion-pricing-money-new-yorks-for-the-taking/#comment-60970</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Higashide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 16:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2902#comment-60970</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately for Chicago, they messed things up at the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/09/chicago-loses-nycs-congestion-pricing-money/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;very last minute&lt;/a&gt;. But I agree with Ben that it&#039;s likely that NYC could get federal money even if that hadn&#039;t happened, just because it is the country&#039;s largest city and should be setting an example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately for Chicago, they messed things up at the <a href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/01/09/chicago-loses-nycs-congestion-pricing-money/" rel="nofollow">very last minute</a>. But I agree with Ben that it&#8217;s likely that NYC could get federal money even if that hadn&#8217;t happened, just because it is the country&#8217;s largest city and should be setting an example.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Kabak</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/14/congestion-pricing-money-new-yorks-for-the-taking/#comment-60964</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Kabak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 15:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2902#comment-60964</guid>
		<description>I think that the change was simply a new president. Obama&#039;s FTA is way more willing to give out money than Bush&#039;s was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the change was simply a new president. Obama&#8217;s FTA is way more willing to give out money than Bush&#8217;s was.</p>
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