Comments on: The MTA’s pension and benefits problems http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/15/the-mtas-pension-and-benefits-problems/ A New York City Subway Blog Sat, 26 May 2012 00:19:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Joe http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/15/the-mtas-pension-and-benefits-problems/#comment-82536 Joe Fri, 18 Jun 2010 01:33:50 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2904#comment-82536 Since the take over of the private bus co 5 years ago and some of the non rep employees still have no pension at all, and still get MUCH less pay then there MTA counterparts in which they work side by side with. Since the take over of the private bus co 5 years ago and some of the non rep employees still have no pension at all, and still get MUCH less pay then there MTA counterparts in which they work side by side with.

]]> By: NY Fiscal Watch http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/15/the-mtas-pension-and-benefits-problems/#comment-61347 NY Fiscal Watch Mon, 01 Jun 2009 09:47:27 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2904#comment-61347 [...] transit world is already slowly moving toward a reasonable discussion on how outdated labor costs are affecting tomorrow’s infrastructure — and a push here [...] [...] transit world is already slowly moving toward a reasonable discussion on how outdated labor costs are affecting tomorrow’s infrastructure — and a push here [...]

]]> By: Gotham Gazette - The Wonkster » Blog Archive » Weekly Web Wrap http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/15/the-mtas-pension-and-benefits-problems/#comment-61165 Gotham Gazette - The Wonkster » Blog Archive » Weekly Web Wrap Fri, 22 May 2009 20:20:17 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2904#comment-61165 [...] The MTA?s Pension and Benefits Problems (Second Ave. Sags) [...] [...] The MTA?s Pension and Benefits Problems (Second Ave. Sags) [...]

]]> By: Mark http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/15/the-mtas-pension-and-benefits-problems/#comment-61040 Mark Mon, 18 May 2009 21:02:20 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2904#comment-61040 I think the average man on the street is likely to support TWU demands because he doesn't really comprehend the packages that MTA workers are getting, especially versus the packages that non-MTA workers (private sector) are getting. An MTA worker retiring at 55 and receiving pension benefits until he dies, assume that is the average life expectancy in the US, has a *pension* benefit of just over US$1 mln. That does not include health benefits, which could easily tack on another few hundred thousand. Take into consideration that an MTA worker's paycheck does not equal a private sector paycheck, as they contribute very little (I think 10%) to the cost of their pension while private sector workers contribute over half of the cost of their pension, if their employer helps out at all, and health care benefits are also heavily subsidized. So their bottom line, while they are working, is greater at every income level than a corresponding private sector worker. I believe that if the average man on the street were asked whether the TWU's demands were fair and had that knowledge he would think otherwise. The 'Fourth Estate' -the press -does an extrmely poor job of educating the public as to what is being done with their tax dollars. But given the current economic situation, the lower tax bases, sinking stock market and spiralling health care costs, what the TWU is actually doing is cannibalizing their own future. No system can sustain itself under such a huge burden, so given the overly generos packages that have been given to workers over the last few decades and the impossibility of raising tax revenue materially, either these benefits will have to be slashed for future workers or MTA staffing will have to plummet. I think the average man on the street is likely to support TWU demands because he doesn’t really comprehend the packages that MTA workers are getting, especially versus the packages that non-MTA workers (private sector) are getting.
An MTA worker retiring at 55 and receiving pension benefits until he dies, assume that is the average life expectancy in the US, has a *pension* benefit of just over US$1 mln. That does not include health benefits, which could easily tack on another few hundred thousand.
Take into consideration that an MTA worker’s paycheck does not equal a private sector paycheck, as they contribute very little (I think 10%) to the cost of their pension while private sector workers contribute over half of the cost of their pension, if their employer helps out at all, and health care benefits are also heavily subsidized. So their bottom line, while they are working, is greater at every income level than a corresponding private sector worker.
I believe that if the average man on the street were asked whether the TWU’s demands were fair and had that knowledge he would think otherwise. The ‘Fourth Estate’ -the press -does an extrmely poor job of educating the public as to what is being done with their tax dollars.
But given the current economic situation, the lower tax bases, sinking stock market and spiralling health care costs, what the TWU is actually doing is cannibalizing their own future. No system can sustain itself under such a huge burden, so given the overly generos packages that have been given to workers over the last few decades and the impossibility of raising tax revenue materially, either these benefits will have to be slashed for future workers or MTA staffing will have to plummet.

]]> By: AlexB http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/15/the-mtas-pension-and-benefits-problems/#comment-61031 AlexB Mon, 18 May 2009 14:37:04 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2904#comment-61031 Whoa! I got to this post from a link from the post from today, May 18th. Fantastic comments. Doesn't it all boil down to how we define economic justice? Some people (Nicole) define it as what the market will bear. Justice is the intersection of supply and demand in the labor market. Paying more than that is unfair for everyone else in that market, particularly if it's on the back of the taxpayer. The best way to raise wages is to increase the demand for labor, not to require arbitrarily that we spend more on it. On the other side is the notion that economic fairness is more tied to a living wage and cradle to the grave support. In this notion, the role of the government is to promote the ideal of employment, not take advantage of the reality on the ground. After all, the gov't is by and for the people, not for the bottom line. Ticket booth workers get paid more than Gap workers because Gap workers are not being treated fairly, for example. I think the everyday New Yorker who supported the TWU during the strike did so because they were tired of seeing their own benefits and/or standard of living go down (even though supporting the TWU made their own costs go up.) Freakonomics makes the interesting point somewhere that the everyday person is more likely to toss a coin to a beggar than the bossman, but I guess you don't get the be the boss by giving your stuff away. So the question boils down to: Do you think the MTA should pay its employees what it can to save taxpayer $$ or should it use more taxpayer $$ to change the standard of compensation for the low skilled and/or moderately skilled workforce? Is it possible to provide a living wage and an efficient transit system at a reasonable cost? Whoa! I got to this post from a link from the post from today, May 18th. Fantastic comments.

Doesn’t it all boil down to how we define economic justice? Some people (Nicole) define it as what the market will bear. Justice is the intersection of supply and demand in the labor market. Paying more than that is unfair for everyone else in that market, particularly if it’s on the back of the taxpayer. The best way to raise wages is to increase the demand for labor, not to require arbitrarily that we spend more on it.

On the other side is the notion that economic fairness is more tied to a living wage and cradle to the grave support. In this notion, the role of the government is to promote the ideal of employment, not take advantage of the reality on the ground. After all, the gov’t is by and for the people, not for the bottom line. Ticket booth workers get paid more than Gap workers because Gap workers are not being treated fairly, for example.

I think the everyday New Yorker who supported the TWU during the strike did so because they were tired of seeing their own benefits and/or standard of living go down (even though supporting the TWU made their own costs go up.) Freakonomics makes the interesting point somewhere that the everyday person is more likely to toss a coin to a beggar than the bossman, but I guess you don’t get the be the boss by giving your stuff away.

So the question boils down to: Do you think the MTA should pay its employees what it can to save taxpayer $$ or should it use more taxpayer $$ to change the standard of compensation for the low skilled and/or moderately skilled workforce? Is it possible to provide a living wage and an efficient transit system at a reasonable cost?

]]> By: Transit considering more conductor-less trains :: Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/15/the-mtas-pension-and-benefits-problems/#comment-61017 Transit considering more conductor-less trains :: Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog Mon, 18 May 2009 04:06:52 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2904#comment-61017 [...] on the heels of Friday’s rather controversial post about the funding and benefits issues facing the MTA, today we have a pair of stories about the dicey fate of MTA employees. We’ll [...] [...] on the heels of Friday’s rather controversial post about the funding and benefits issues facing the MTA, today we have a pair of stories about the dicey fate of MTA employees. We’ll [...]

]]> By: petey http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/15/the-mtas-pension-and-benefits-problems/#comment-61005 petey Sun, 17 May 2009 15:10:54 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2904#comment-61005 edit: i realize now, seeing how the responses are nested, that red was responding to alon. but i do wish the taylor law would be repealed. edit: i realize now, seeing how the responses are nested, that red was responding to alon. but i do wish the taylor law would be repealed.

]]> By: petey http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/15/the-mtas-pension-and-benefits-problems/#comment-61002 petey Sun, 17 May 2009 02:15:02 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2904#comment-61002 "In this day and age, should public-sector workers be able to retire at 55 with fully guaranteed benefits?" yes. “In this day and age, should public-sector workers be able to retire at 55 with fully guaranteed benefits?”

yes.

]]> By: petey http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/15/the-mtas-pension-and-benefits-problems/#comment-61001 petey Sun, 17 May 2009 02:13:55 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2904#comment-61001 sorry, yours is not a serious response. i wish secondary strikes were legal. they are not (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_boycott), with or without the taylor law (which should of course be repealed). sorry, yours is not a serious response. i wish secondary strikes were legal. they are not (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_boycott), with or without the taylor law (which should of course be repealed).

]]> By: Al W http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/15/the-mtas-pension-and-benefits-problems/#comment-60987 Al W Sat, 16 May 2009 02:05:54 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2904#comment-60987 Thanks for posting this Ben. Sometimes, we need to be reminded that there are multiple elephants in the room. Thanks for posting this Ben. Sometimes, we need to be reminded that there are multiple elephants in the room.

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