Comments on: Reframing the congestion pricing debate http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/20/reframing-the-congestion-pricing-debate/ A New York City Subway Blog Mon, 13 Feb 2012 11:14:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Marc Shepherd http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/20/reframing-the-congestion-pricing-debate/#comment-61114 Marc Shepherd Wed, 20 May 2009 20:33:08 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2935#comment-61114 Absolutely right, but the point is that it failed. Which probably means it needs to be changed before they try it again. Absolutely right, but the point is that it failed. Which probably means it needs to be changed before they try it again.

]]> By: Alon Levy http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/20/reframing-the-congestion-pricing-debate/#comment-61109 Alon Levy Wed, 20 May 2009 20:12:46 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2935#comment-61109 Ravitch's proposal failed by a smaller margin. Explaining why he didn't schedule a vote on CP in the Assembly, Sheldon Silver said that there were 15-20 votes for it. In contrast, this year the Assembly was ready to pass a version of the Ravitch plan that included bridge tolls, and the Senate was 4-5 votes down. Ravitch’s proposal failed by a smaller margin. Explaining why he didn’t schedule a vote on CP in the Assembly, Sheldon Silver said that there were 15-20 votes for it. In contrast, this year the Assembly was ready to pass a version of the Ravitch plan that included bridge tolls, and the Senate was 4-5 votes down.

]]> By: Marc Shepherd http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/20/reframing-the-congestion-pricing-debate/#comment-61107 Marc Shepherd Wed, 20 May 2009 19:29:48 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2935#comment-61107 One other point to note: I don't think Bloomberg's political tone-deafness entirely explains why CP went down in flames. After all, Ravitch's proposal for bridge tolls was effectively a subset of CP, and it didn't pass either. Bloomberg kept his nose out of Albany, so you can't blame that one on him. One other point to note: I don’t think Bloomberg’s political tone-deafness entirely explains why CP went down in flames. After all, Ravitch’s proposal for bridge tolls was effectively a subset of CP, and it didn’t pass either. Bloomberg kept his nose out of Albany, so you can’t blame that one on him.

]]> By: Marc Shepherd http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/20/reframing-the-congestion-pricing-debate/#comment-61106 Marc Shepherd Wed, 20 May 2009 18:13:58 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2935#comment-61106 I haven't actually seen a clear headcount that shows bridge tolls would have passed without a payroll tax. In any event, bridge tolls alone weren't enough. I haven’t actually seen a clear headcount that shows bridge tolls would have passed without a payroll tax. In any event, bridge tolls alone weren’t enough.

]]> By: Alon Levy http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/20/reframing-the-congestion-pricing-debate/#comment-61105 Alon Levy Wed, 20 May 2009 17:51:28 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2935#comment-61105 CP didn't pass the last time because Bloomberg understands politics to the same extent a fish understands bicycling. This time the State Assembly was willing to vote for bridge tolls, and the State Senate would've followed suit if they weren't bundled with payroll taxes. CP didn’t pass the last time because Bloomberg understands politics to the same extent a fish understands bicycling. This time the State Assembly was willing to vote for bridge tolls, and the State Senate would’ve followed suit if they weren’t bundled with payroll taxes.

]]> By: Alon Levy http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/20/reframing-the-congestion-pricing-debate/#comment-61104 Alon Levy Wed, 20 May 2009 17:49:35 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2935#comment-61104 London is also more unequal and more into screwing the poor than New York. Like New York it generally votes for the left, but it doesn't mind much that it's developing Latin American levels of inequality, with a class of ultra-rich finance people and a huge class of people who aren't so rich. London is also more unequal and more into screwing the poor than New York. Like New York it generally votes for the left, but it doesn’t mind much that it’s developing Latin American levels of inequality, with a class of ultra-rich finance people and a huge class of people who aren’t so rich.

]]> By: Rhywun http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/20/reframing-the-congestion-pricing-debate/#comment-61100 Rhywun Wed, 20 May 2009 17:22:48 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2935#comment-61100 It would have to be some sort of sliding scale before I would sign on to it. But I would rather implement it at tax time to keep things simple. It would have to be some sort of sliding scale before I would sign on to it. But I would rather implement it at tax time to keep things simple.

]]> By: Marc Shepherd http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/20/reframing-the-congestion-pricing-debate/#comment-61098 Marc Shepherd Wed, 20 May 2009 17:08:16 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2935#comment-61098 No, London doesn't do that. Just as in New York, lower-income Londoners generally do not drive into the CBD. (Public transit in Greater London has a <em>much</em> deeper reach than it does in Greater New York, so there is even <em>less</em> reason to drive.) But we must face facts: Congestion Pricing didn't pass the last time it came up. That means the proposal probably needs to change somehow. Vouchers for the poor probably won't alter the economics very much. If that's what's needed to win passage, then I'm for it. No, London doesn’t do that. Just as in New York, lower-income Londoners generally do not drive into the CBD. (Public transit in Greater London has a much deeper reach than it does in Greater New York, so there is even less reason to drive.)

But we must face facts: Congestion Pricing didn’t pass the last time it came up. That means the proposal probably needs to change somehow. Vouchers for the poor probably won’t alter the economics very much. If that’s what’s needed to win passage, then I’m for it.

]]> By: rhywun http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/20/reframing-the-congestion-pricing-debate/#comment-61091 rhywun Wed, 20 May 2009 12:55:04 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2935#comment-61091 If the intent is to reduce congestion & improve transit, it seems counter-intuitive to grant free driving privileges to an arbitrarily-defined group of "the poor". Does London do it? If the intent is to reduce congestion & improve transit, it seems counter-intuitive to grant free driving privileges to an arbitrarily-defined group of “the poor”. Does London do it?

]]> By: fpteditors http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/05/20/reframing-the-congestion-pricing-debate/#comment-61090 fpteditors Wed, 20 May 2009 12:48:00 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=2935#comment-61090 The whole transportation discussion needs re-framing. The private-auto system is economically and ecologically unsustainable and exists only through heavy subsidy. Public transit is a public investment that benefits all, even those who never ride it. The reason we have all these complex schemes like road pricing is that there is no one representing the people. We have been telling pollsters for years that we want public investment in public transit, but elected officials cannot overcome the highway lobby. The whole transportation discussion needs re-framing. The private-auto system is economically and ecologically unsustainable and exists only through heavy subsidy. Public transit is a public investment that benefits all, even those who never ride it. The reason we have all these complex schemes like road pricing is that there is no one representing the people. We have been telling pollsters for years that we want public investment in public transit, but elected officials cannot overcome the highway lobby.

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