Comments on: A sweeter sweetheart deal for the Atlantic Yards http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/01/a-sweet-sweetheart-deal-for-the-atlantic-yards/ A New York City Subway Blog Mon, 13 Feb 2012 18:09:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Will the MTA kowtow to Ratner on Atlantic Yards plans? :: Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/01/a-sweet-sweetheart-deal-for-the-atlantic-yards/#comment-61918 Will the MTA kowtow to Ratner on Atlantic Yards plans? :: Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog Mon, 22 Jun 2009 04:01:58 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3020#comment-61918 [...] this month, I explored how Bruce Ratner wanted a sweeter sweetheart deal for the Vanderbilt Yards, the MTA-owned railroads that make up a large chunk of his Atlantic Yards development. While the [...] [...] this month, I explored how Bruce Ratner wanted a sweeter sweetheart deal for the Vanderbilt Yards, the MTA-owned railroads that make up a large chunk of his Atlantic Yards development. While the [...]

]]> By: JP http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/01/a-sweet-sweetheart-deal-for-the-atlantic-yards/#comment-61750 JP Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:11:54 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3020#comment-61750 at least the mta is consistent in that they always do it wrong. can anyone show me an arena/stadium project which created hearty economic benefits for the public? as I understand it, these projects are always a money pit, unless of course you own the sports franchise or the building. at least the mta is consistent in that they always do it wrong.

can anyone show me an arena/stadium project which created hearty economic benefits for the public? as I understand it, these projects are always a money pit, unless of course you own the sports franchise or the building.

]]> By: The Secret Conductor http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/01/a-sweet-sweetheart-deal-for-the-atlantic-yards/#comment-61402 The Secret Conductor Wed, 03 Jun 2009 10:23:24 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3020#comment-61402 Those were 2 good links. So then the question would be why go ahead with the project? <strong>Greed?</strong> Whose greed if the money is not projected to pay much in the way of taxes from the many businesses (big and small), tickets sales and vendor licenses, parking, shopping, and so forth in trying to make downtown Brooklyn a major entertainment and business/work destination? How is Ratner (gawd what a name for a situation like this) going to somehow get super rich off of this project if he can't get the rents from tentents who may or may not move in? The state and the MTA may give him a discount, but will the creditors, note holders and bond holders do the same? By definition a cost-benefits analysis (and any other manegerial accounting methods that can be used for this) is only as good as the info put in it (G.I.G.O.) and USUALLY needs adjustment due to cost variances.<strong>What happeneds when the cost and price variances effect the overall cost due to some situation out of the control of Ratner?</strong> I would love, thought, to see the statistical control charts and their Recovery of Original Investment for this whole progrect for Ratner and the City/State/MTA Nevertheless, it is very possible they are being very positive with their estimates. Who knows if more people than estimated or less will go to the Basketball games or want to somehow be associated with the downtown area. All I am saying is that for a project that won't generate jobs, money and help develope downtown Brooklyn, they sure seem to want it built. Nevertheless I do see the gaping holes in how this whole project came about, but I still lean toward it getting built. LOL thos responce could have been a whole blog post in itself. Those were 2 good links. So then the question would be why go ahead with the project? Greed? Whose greed if the money is not projected to pay much in the way of taxes from the many businesses (big and small), tickets sales and vendor licenses, parking, shopping, and so forth in trying to make downtown Brooklyn a major entertainment and business/work destination?

How is Ratner (gawd what a name for a situation like this) going to somehow get super rich off of this project if he can’t get the rents from tentents who may or may not move in? The state and the MTA may give him a discount, but will the creditors, note holders and bond holders do the same?

By definition a cost-benefits analysis (and any other manegerial accounting methods that can be used for this) is only as good as the info put in it (G.I.G.O.) and USUALLY needs adjustment due to cost variances.What happeneds when the cost and price variances effect the overall cost due to some situation out of the control of Ratner?

I would love, thought, to see the statistical control charts and their Recovery of Original Investment for this whole progrect for Ratner and the City/State/MTA

Nevertheless, it is very possible they are being very positive with their estimates. Who knows if more people than estimated or less will go to the Basketball games or want to somehow be associated with the downtown area. All I am saying is that for a project that won’t generate jobs, money and help develope downtown Brooklyn, they sure seem to want it built. Nevertheless I do see the gaping holes in how this whole project came about, but I still lean toward it getting built.

LOL thos responce could have been a whole blog post in itself.

]]> By: Raul Rothblatt http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/01/a-sweet-sweetheart-deal-for-the-atlantic-yards/#comment-61399 Raul Rothblatt Wed, 03 Jun 2009 03:39:29 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3020#comment-61399 Hey Secret Conductor~ You might want to do a cost-benefit analysis. Neither the MTA or the State has done a credible analysis if the costs will exceed the benefits. In fact, the most recent guess by the Independent Budget Office is that the arena will be a loss for taxpayers. Here's some recent info regarding this question: http://tinyurl.com/rbrsuh and http://tinyurl.com/pljdn7 Hey Secret Conductor~

You might want to do a cost-benefit analysis. Neither the MTA or the State has done a credible analysis if the costs will exceed the benefits. In fact, the most recent guess by the Independent Budget Office is that the arena will be a loss for taxpayers.

Here’s some recent info regarding this question:
http://tinyurl.com/rbrsuh
and
http://tinyurl.com/pljdn7

]]> By: The Secret Conductor http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/01/a-sweet-sweetheart-deal-for-the-atlantic-yards/#comment-61398 The Secret Conductor Wed, 03 Jun 2009 03:26:05 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3020#comment-61398 I think the MTA's goal, as well as the city and state, is to get this thing built. why? tax revenue from the businesses who operate out of there, taxes fRom those who are employed in those businesses and the Nets Basketball team of which will Bring in more tax revenue. its not about how much they sell the land for, its the taxes. I think the MTA’s goal, as well as the city and state, is to get this thing built. why? tax revenue from the businesses who operate out of there, taxes fRom those who are employed in those businesses and the Nets Basketball team of which will Bring in more tax revenue.

its not about how much they sell the land for, its the taxes.

]]> By: Raul Rothblatt http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/01/a-sweet-sweetheart-deal-for-the-atlantic-yards/#comment-61395 Raul Rothblatt Tue, 02 Jun 2009 23:52:00 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3020#comment-61395 The LIRR railyards are called "Vanderbilt Yards" and that's the area that Ratner agreed to buy for $100 million. It's about 8 acres, but Ratner also wants to get the streets, homes and businesses in a 22 acre site. That area he has called Atlantic Yards, but it's only a name for the project. The LIRR railyards are called “Vanderbilt Yards” and that’s the area that Ratner agreed to buy for $100 million. It’s about 8 acres, but Ratner also wants to get the streets, homes and businesses in a 22 acre site. That area he has called Atlantic Yards, but it’s only a name for the project.

]]> By: john b http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/01/a-sweet-sweetheart-deal-for-the-atlantic-yards/#comment-61374 john b Tue, 02 Jun 2009 14:56:51 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3020#comment-61374 at least the mta is consistent in that they always take the lowest bid. at least the mta is consistent in that they always take the lowest bid.

]]> By: Benjamin Kabak http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/01/a-sweet-sweetheart-deal-for-the-atlantic-yards/#comment-61370 Benjamin Kabak Tue, 02 Jun 2009 12:41:25 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3020#comment-61370 Well, sure. It's just an assessment. But why settle for an amount less than 1/4th the assessment just to off-load the property in a down market? There's no real reason to sell the development rights over the Atlantic Yards today undermarket, and the $50 million or $100 million is a drop in the MTA's budget bucket. I'm all in favor of maximizing whatever potential revenue they can get for it. Well, sure. It’s just an assessment. But why settle for an amount less than 1/4th the assessment just to off-load the property in a down market? There’s no real reason to sell the development rights over the Atlantic Yards today undermarket, and the $50 million or $100 million is a drop in the MTA’s budget bucket. I’m all in favor of maximizing whatever potential revenue they can get for it.

]]> By: Marc Shepherd http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/01/a-sweet-sweetheart-deal-for-the-atlantic-yards/#comment-61369 Marc Shepherd Tue, 02 Jun 2009 12:39:08 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3020#comment-61369 Bear in mind, the $214m may not be real. Bear in mind, the $214m may not be real.

]]> By: SteveFtGreene http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/01/a-sweet-sweetheart-deal-for-the-atlantic-yards/#comment-61365 SteveFtGreene Tue, 02 Jun 2009 08:38:07 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3020#comment-61365 Competitive bid much? Competitive bid much?

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