Comments on: Underground cell service plan still on hold http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/05/underground-cell-service-plan-still-on-hold/ A New York City Subway Blog Sat, 20 Mar 2010 16:03:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: DC’s Metro moves toward a fully wired system :: Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/05/underground-cell-service-plan-still-on-hold/#comment-64101 DC’s Metro moves toward a fully wired system :: Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:04:26 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3049#comment-64101 [...] service. Nearly two years later, nothing has come from the ten-year contract the MTA inked with a less-than-secure company. Meanwhile, a few hundred miles to the south, the District of Columbia’s WMATA is continuing [...] [...] service. Nearly two years later, nothing has come from the ten-year contract the MTA inked with a less-than-secure company. Meanwhile, a few hundred miles to the south, the District of Columbia’s WMATA is continuing [...]

]]> By: Scott E http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/05/underground-cell-service-plan-still-on-hold/#comment-61487 Scott E Sat, 06 Jun 2009 03:32:12 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3049#comment-61487 OK, point taken. I understand that There's More Than One Way to Bomb a Subway (there's an eerie title if I ever heard one), but its still an argument that will be used by opponents to in-tunnel cell service. OK, point taken. I understand that There’s More Than One Way to Bomb a Subway (there’s an eerie title if I ever heard one), but its still an argument that will be used by opponents to in-tunnel cell service.

]]> By: herenthere http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/05/underground-cell-service-plan-still-on-hold/#comment-61485 herenthere Fri, 05 Jun 2009 23:55:25 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3049#comment-61485 Someone should make a song based on Jamie Foxx's "Blame It" song and put the Fare Hike Four and state reps at blame for the MTA's deteriorating condition. :) Someone should make a song based on Jamie Foxx’s “Blame It” song and put the Fare Hike Four and state reps at blame for the MTA’s deteriorating condition. :)

]]> By: Alon Levy http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/05/underground-cell-service-plan-still-on-hold/#comment-61480 Alon Levy Fri, 05 Jun 2009 20:07:28 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3049#comment-61480 No, bombs are detonated by timers, or manually by suicide bombers. In London they used cellphone alarm clocks, which work even when there's no cell coverage. No, bombs are detonated by timers, or manually by suicide bombers. In London they used cellphone alarm clocks, which work even when there’s no cell coverage.

]]> By: R2 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/05/underground-cell-service-plan-still-on-hold/#comment-61478 R2 Fri, 05 Jun 2009 19:10:26 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3049#comment-61478 I'm tired of the safety issue crap. On the LIRR, there is cell phone service in the East River tunnels. If someone had wanted to cause trouble, it would have happened already! I’m tired of the safety issue crap. On the LIRR, there is cell phone service in the East River tunnels. If someone had wanted to cause trouble, it would have happened already!

]]> By: Son of Spam http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/05/underground-cell-service-plan-still-on-hold/#comment-61477 Son of Spam Fri, 05 Jun 2009 19:09:15 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3049#comment-61477 I thought the "bomb-detonating calls" theory was debunked years ago. It's just as easy for the remote bomber to set up a timer on the phone than it is to call into it. Putting wireless service in tunnels will not increase the chances of a bomb incident. I thought the “bomb-detonating calls” theory was debunked years ago. It’s just as easy for the remote bomber to set up a timer on the phone than it is to call into it. Putting wireless service in tunnels will not increase the chances of a bomb incident.

]]> By: Scott E http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/05/underground-cell-service-plan-still-on-hold/#comment-61473 Scott E Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:01:49 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3049#comment-61473 Rhywun - On the contrary - it's not a waste of money, it's a source of revenue for the MTA - just so long as it's priced appropriately. When you ask for $3 million per month for rent, the apartment remains vacant. The safety issue remains debatable. The system can be used to call for help, but it also can be used to receive bomb-detonating calls. Rhywun – On the contrary – it’s not a waste of money, it’s a source of revenue for the MTA – just so long as it’s priced appropriately. When you ask for $3 million per month for rent, the apartment remains vacant.

The safety issue remains debatable. The system can be used to call for help, but it also can be used to receive bomb-detonating calls.

]]> By: Ariel http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/05/underground-cell-service-plan-still-on-hold/#comment-61471 Ariel Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:45:06 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3049#comment-61471 I strongly disagree with the commentators who say this is a waste of money. Not only should the MTA wire the stations, but they should wire the tunnels as well. It is absolutely vital to improve our communication capacity around the city in order to remain competitive and cutting-edge. Advancing technological modernizations such as this one would increase our potential for economic growth by enhancing our ability to exchange information. The overall benefits of increasing our communication capabilities trumps any nuisance that cellphone users will cause in an already noisy subway system. I strongly disagree with the commentators who say this is a waste of money. Not only should the MTA wire the stations, but they should wire the tunnels as well.

It is absolutely vital to improve our communication capacity around the city in order to remain competitive and cutting-edge. Advancing technological modernizations such as this one would increase our potential for economic growth by enhancing our ability to exchange information.

The overall benefits of increasing our communication capabilities trumps any nuisance that cellphone users will cause in an already noisy subway system.

]]> By: Rhywun http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/05/underground-cell-service-plan-still-on-hold/#comment-61468 Rhywun Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:56:31 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3049#comment-61468 The only positive thing I see about underground service is in case of an emergency. And how often is that? Otherwise, this is vast waste of money for almost no benefit. Is it really so hard to for people to go without yapping for a hour or two a day?? The only positive thing I see about underground service is in case of an emergency. And how often is that?

Otherwise, this is vast waste of money for almost no benefit. Is it really so hard to for people to go without yapping for a hour or two a day??

]]> By: Scott E http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/05/underground-cell-service-plan-still-on-hold/#comment-61467 Scott E Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:39:28 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3049#comment-61467 The reason cell-phones are banned from airplanes because the cellular networks could not support it -- putting a transmitter so high above the ground would cause all kinds of interference to the terrestrial network. (I worked for years doing cellular RF network engineering, so I know what I'm talking about). Financially, this subway project never really stood a chance. Transit Wireless would need to pay, according to the original 2007 blog post, $400 million total over ten years in a combination of "rights fees" to the MTA and for equipment. This averages out to $3 mil per month. To break even, if each carrier (AT&T, Sprint-Nextel, T-Mobile, Verizon, MetroPCS) hopped on board, they'd need to pay an exorbitant $600,000 per month - which they would NEVER agree to, especially to not get tunnel coverage. [Recall that four carriers submitted a bid to pay, collectively, $40 for the ten years, or a dollar per month per service provider - in 2007]. We haven't yet considered the additional costs of utilities (power/telco), maintenance, or cost overruns -- or any sort of profit for Transit Wireless. We also haven't touched on WiFi, which has been proven to be unsustainable as a free, ad-supported, service. Unless TW was willing to operate in the red for ten years, or to use this as a giant billboard to get more lucrative deals elsewhere in the country, it was doomed from the start. If someone did their homework, it wouldn't have taken two years to realize this. The reason cell-phones are banned from airplanes because the cellular networks could not support it — putting a transmitter so high above the ground would cause all kinds of interference to the terrestrial network. (I worked for years doing cellular RF network engineering, so I know what I’m talking about).

Financially, this subway project never really stood a chance. Transit Wireless would need to pay, according to the original 2007 blog post, $400 million total over ten years in a combination of “rights fees” to the MTA and for equipment. This averages out to $3 mil per month. To break even, if each carrier (AT&T, Sprint-Nextel, T-Mobile, Verizon, MetroPCS) hopped on board, they’d need to pay an exorbitant $600,000 per month – which they would NEVER agree to, especially to not get tunnel coverage. [Recall that four carriers submitted a bid to pay, collectively, $40 for the ten years, or a dollar per month per service provider - in 2007]. We haven’t yet considered the additional costs of utilities (power/telco), maintenance, or cost overruns — or any sort of profit for Transit Wireless. We also haven’t touched on WiFi, which has been proven to be unsustainable as a free, ad-supported, service.

Unless TW was willing to operate in the red for ten years, or to use this as a giant billboard to get more lucrative deals elsewhere in the country, it was doomed from the start. If someone did their homework, it wouldn’t have taken two years to realize this.

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