Comments on: Second Ave. business picking up good vibrations http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/16/second-ave-business-picking-up-good-vibrations/ A New York City Subway Blog Mon, 13 Feb 2012 18:30:51 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: George http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/16/second-ave-business-picking-up-good-vibrations/#comment-61783 George Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:39:49 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3123#comment-61783 They need to use cut and cover to excavate for the stations. TBM isn't going to provide the space needed for them. They are minimizing cut-and-cover to locations where they absolutely need it, mainly because TBM is the faster and more economical approach. They need to use cut and cover to excavate for the stations. TBM isn’t going to provide the space needed for them. They are minimizing cut-and-cover to locations where they absolutely need it, mainly because TBM is the faster and more economical approach.

]]> By: Alon Levy http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/16/second-ave-business-picking-up-good-vibrations/#comment-61770 Alon Levy Wed, 17 Jun 2009 05:59:13 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3123#comment-61770 It's happening in the blocks near 72nd and 86th as well. Thus the major intersections of the East Side all have cut and cover anyway. It’s happening in the blocks near 72nd and 86th as well. Thus the major intersections of the East Side all have cut and cover anyway.

]]> By: Josh K http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/16/second-ave-business-picking-up-good-vibrations/#comment-61765 Josh K Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:50:21 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3123#comment-61765 Tunnel Boring Machines are actually more economically feasible in these modern times. Labor is not as cheap in NYC as it used to be. Also, they never would have gotten through the environmental impact study phase had they gone with cut and cover. The dust problems alone from cut and cover would have been a nightmare. In addition, back in the day, the city had a lot more lax policies on fire department access, garbage collection and such. Also, back in the day, the city government didn't really care about anyone. Tammany Hall was in it for themselves, which occasionally meant that infrastructure got built (construction projects provide so many interesting opportunities for graft). The hammering and drilling for the secant pile walls is what is causing these 'supposed' structurally deficient buildings to have issues. These would go on regardless. Tunnel Boring Machines are a tried a true method in NYC and around the world. They dug the Channel Tunnel and they're digging the Gothard Base Tunnel through the entire base of the Alps from Italy to Switzerland. They've been using TBMs to dig the NYC DEP Water Tunnel #3 for quite sometime. They're using them quite successfully on the East Side Access project right now. So, its not an expensive untested technology or something. The TBMs are faster at digging through the various hard rocks of Manhattan better than drill and blast or cut and cover. If it were cut and cover there would be blasting going on at the surface. Imagine the complaining and issues if that were happening. Its not surprising to me that there are structural problems with some of these buildings. Maintenance isn't usually the highest priority of most landlords lists (you're lucky if it makes the top 50). The question really is who is responsible for paying for the repairs. Tunnel Boring Machines are actually more economically feasible in these modern times. Labor is not as cheap in NYC as it used to be. Also, they never would have gotten through the environmental impact study phase had they gone with cut and cover. The dust problems alone from cut and cover would have been a nightmare. In addition, back in the day, the city had a lot more lax policies on fire department access, garbage collection and such. Also, back in the day, the city government didn’t really care about anyone. Tammany Hall was in it for themselves, which occasionally meant that infrastructure got built (construction projects provide so many interesting opportunities for graft).

The hammering and drilling for the secant pile walls is what is causing these ‘supposed’ structurally deficient buildings to have issues. These would go on regardless.

Tunnel Boring Machines are a tried a true method in NYC and around the world. They dug the Channel Tunnel and they’re digging the Gothard Base Tunnel through the entire base of the Alps from Italy to Switzerland. They’ve been using TBMs to dig the NYC DEP Water Tunnel #3 for quite sometime. They’re using them quite successfully on the East Side Access project right now. So, its not an expensive untested technology or something. The TBMs are faster at digging through the various hard rocks of Manhattan better than drill and blast or cut and cover. If it were cut and cover there would be blasting going on at the surface. Imagine the complaining and issues if that were happening.

Its not surprising to me that there are structural problems with some of these buildings. Maintenance isn’t usually the highest priority of most landlords lists (you’re lucky if it makes the top 50). The question really is who is responsible for paying for the repairs.

]]> By: rhywun http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/16/second-ave-business-picking-up-good-vibrations/#comment-61759 rhywun Wed, 17 Jun 2009 02:28:07 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3123#comment-61759 Maybe I'm off-base, but I was just getting the sense that they're using this tunnel-boring method at what must be a vastly greater expenditure over the tried-and-true cut-and-cover method that worked just fine for... every other subway line in Manhattan, and for what? To keep businesses on 2nd Avenue happy? Yeah, that's important, but at what cost? In the old days this line would have already been done by now. Maybe I’m off-base, but I was just getting the sense that they’re using this tunnel-boring method at what must be a vastly greater expenditure over the tried-and-true cut-and-cover method that worked just fine for… every other subway line in Manhattan, and for what? To keep businesses on 2nd Avenue happy? Yeah, that’s important, but at what cost? In the old days this line would have already been done by now.

]]> By: JMP http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/16/second-ave-business-picking-up-good-vibrations/#comment-61754 JMP Wed, 17 Jun 2009 01:28:57 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3123#comment-61754 What they're doing at the current construction site <i>is</i> cut and cover. They have to construct the launch box using cut and cover techniques before they can put the tunnel boring machine in the ground. They're just now putting in the second half of the panels that will provide the temporary street surface during the construction, and are starting the deep excavation of the launch box at the south end of the construction zone. With cut and cover, the sort of inconvenience that we're seeing between 91st and 96th streets would be felt all along the length of the route. Instead, it'll only happen in a few areas. What they’re doing at the current construction site is cut and cover. They have to construct the launch box using cut and cover techniques before they can put the tunnel boring machine in the ground. They’re just now putting in the second half of the panels that will provide the temporary street surface during the construction, and are starting the deep excavation of the launch box at the south end of the construction zone. With cut and cover, the sort of inconvenience that we’re seeing between 91st and 96th streets would be felt all along the length of the route. Instead, it’ll only happen in a few areas.

]]> By: Adam G http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/16/second-ave-business-picking-up-good-vibrations/#comment-61752 Adam G Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:52:25 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3123#comment-61752 Considering how long utility relocation has taken for the TBM launch box alone, can you imagine how long it would have taken to do for the length of Phase I? Part of the point of doing the tunneling with a TBM instead of cut-and-cover is avoiding having to move miles of infrastructure. Considering how long utility relocation has taken for the TBM launch box alone, can you imagine how long it would have taken to do for the length of Phase I? Part of the point of doing the tunneling with a TBM instead of cut-and-cover is avoiding having to move miles of infrastructure.

]]> By: rhywun http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/06/16/second-ave-business-picking-up-good-vibrations/#comment-61751 rhywun Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:17:36 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3123#comment-61751 Couldn't they have just done cut-and-cover and avoided all this nonsense...? Couldn’t they have just done cut-and-cover and avoided all this nonsense…?

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