Comments on: More expensive Phase I of SAS may not open until 2017 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/07/21/more-expensive-phase-i-of-sas-may-not-open-until-2017/ A New York City Subway Blog Mon, 13 Feb 2012 20:24:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Barry http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/07/21/more-expensive-phase-i-of-sas-may-not-open-until-2017/#comment-69927 Barry Fri, 15 Jan 2010 20:20:21 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3377#comment-69927 Anyone who believes there will ever be a 2nd ave subway line is nuts. The MTA is not able now or ever to handle a project this huge. The only way the second ave line is ever going to be built is for the citizens of NYC or the federal government to pay for it. The MTA cannot handle it's spending now to ask this same agency to add a complete subway line is impossible for them. The builders of New York City subways lines dead a long time ago. They took more than just knowledge when they pasted they took the guts of this city with them. Anyone who believes there will ever be a 2nd ave subway line is nuts. The MTA is not able now or ever to handle a project this huge. The only way the second ave line is ever going to be built is for the citizens of NYC or the federal government to pay for it. The MTA cannot handle it’s spending now to ask this same agency to add a complete subway line is impossible for them. The builders of New York City subways lines dead a long time ago. They took more than just knowledge when they pasted they took the guts of this city with them.

]]> By: Nathanael http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/07/21/more-expensive-phase-i-of-sas-may-not-open-until-2017/#comment-63015 Nathanael Tue, 28 Jul 2009 09:14:55 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3377#comment-63015 I honestly don't see any reason the SAS shouldn't be finished by 2013. They start the TBMs by the end of this year, they run for 30 weeks, it still leaves three years to mine the stations, build the stations and tracks, test the signals, and open. This first part, cut-and-cover construction with retaining walls and utility relocation, was *always* the part with the most uncertain schedule. Why should the rest of it, which is much more straightforward, be delayed in the same manner? I honestly don’t see any reason the SAS shouldn’t be finished by 2013. They start the TBMs by the end of this year, they run for 30 weeks, it still leaves three years to mine the stations, build the stations and tracks, test the signals, and open.

This first part, cut-and-cover construction with retaining walls and utility relocation, was *always* the part with the most uncertain schedule. Why should the rest of it, which is much more straightforward, be delayed in the same manner?

]]> By: The World’s 7 Greatest Subways: A Slideshow : Green Resouces http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/07/21/more-expensive-phase-i-of-sas-may-not-open-until-2017/#comment-62936 The World’s 7 Greatest Subways: A Slideshow : Green Resouces Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:31:50 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3377#comment-62936 [...] York announced this week it will again delay the 2nd Avenue Subway – a chimerical line already half a century in the making. As New York’s and many other [...] [...] York announced this week it will again delay the 2nd Avenue Subway – a chimerical line already half a century in the making. As New York’s and many other [...]

]]> By: The World’s 7 Greatest Subways: A Slideshow - Zidee.com http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/07/21/more-expensive-phase-i-of-sas-may-not-open-until-2017/#comment-62935 The World’s 7 Greatest Subways: A Slideshow - Zidee.com Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:09:35 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3377#comment-62935 [...] York announced this week it will again delay the 2nd Avenue Subway – a chimerical line already half a century in the making. As New York’s and many other [...] [...] York announced this week it will again delay the 2nd Avenue Subway – a chimerical line already half a century in the making. As New York’s and many other [...]

]]> By: Feds see possible $5.7B SAS completed in 2018 :: Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/07/21/more-expensive-phase-i-of-sas-may-not-open-until-2017/#comment-62918 Feds see possible $5.7B SAS completed in 2018 :: Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog Thu, 23 Jul 2009 05:43:24 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3377#comment-62918 [...] on Monday the MTA warned that the Second Ave. Subway may not be open until 2017, the Federal Transit Authority is far more pessimistic. In fact, the Feds’ worst-case [...] [...] on Monday the MTA warned that the Second Ave. Subway may not be open until 2017, the Federal Transit Authority is far more pessimistic. In fact, the Feds’ worst-case [...]

]]> By: Alon Levy http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/07/21/more-expensive-phase-i-of-sas-may-not-open-until-2017/#comment-62913 Alon Levy Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:29:53 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3377#comment-62913 The main cost in construction is labor, not technology. That's why you see it increase faster than the general inflation rate. That's also why you see those ridiculously low cost figures in developing countries - in absolute terms subway construction in Shanghai and Delhi may be cheap, but relative to income it's very expensive. The main cost in construction is labor, not technology. That’s why you see it increase faster than the general inflation rate. That’s also why you see those ridiculously low cost figures in developing countries – in absolute terms subway construction in Shanghai and Delhi may be cheap, but relative to income it’s very expensive.

]]> By: Kai http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/07/21/more-expensive-phase-i-of-sas-may-not-open-until-2017/#comment-62903 Kai Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:48:48 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3377#comment-62903 In all fairness though, two tracks works just fine in the rest of the world, including Tokyo and Moscow. In all fairness though, two tracks works just fine in the rest of the world, including Tokyo and Moscow.

]]> By: Under Bloomberg’s thumb, Senate GOP kills Second Ave. tax abatement :: Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/07/21/more-expensive-phase-i-of-sas-may-not-open-until-2017/#comment-62900 Under Bloomberg’s thumb, Senate GOP kills Second Ave. tax abatement :: Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:01:39 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3377#comment-62900 [...] the Second Ave. Subway construction threatens to drag on for another eight years, business along the torn-up avenue are facing hard times. Construction zones limit access to the [...] [...] the Second Ave. Subway construction threatens to drag on for another eight years, business along the torn-up avenue are facing hard times. Construction zones limit access to the [...]

]]> By: Larry Littlefield http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/07/21/more-expensive-phase-i-of-sas-may-not-open-until-2017/#comment-62893 Larry Littlefield Wed, 22 Jul 2009 13:48:06 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3377#comment-62893 There is no excuse. They are setting the stage for canceling the SAS, which means younger generations will be paying interest on bonds without getting what older generations promised. Older generations spent the money on themselves. "As the price creeps up," In a fair world, the price would be coming down drastically. The construction unions gouge in construction booms, and so do the contractors, but that boom is over. The unions agreed to some give backs on private projects already, which is only fair because when they go shopping they are demanding lower wages and prices from the people they buy from, which is what is happening. I read the bid on the Culver line came in at half price. They should be made to do it for $2 billion in three years. What is the basis of the estimate? That there will be more construction that the monopolists are prepared to handle? What about all those unemployed construction workers and managers in the rest of the country? They could finish up one of the abandoned condos, move in, and get to work on the SAS. There is no excuse. They are setting the stage for canceling the SAS, which means younger generations will be paying interest on bonds without getting what older generations promised. Older generations spent the money on themselves.

“As the price creeps up,”

In a fair world, the price would be coming down drastically. The construction unions gouge in construction booms, and so do the contractors, but that boom is over.

The unions agreed to some give backs on private projects already, which is only fair because when they go shopping they are demanding lower wages and prices from the people they buy from, which is what is happening. I read the bid on the Culver line came in at half price.

They should be made to do it for $2 billion in three years. What is the basis of the estimate? That there will be more construction that the monopolists are prepared to handle? What about all those unemployed construction workers and managers in the rest of the country? They could finish up one of the abandoned condos, move in, and get to work on the SAS.

]]> By: drosejr http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/07/21/more-expensive-phase-i-of-sas-may-not-open-until-2017/#comment-62892 drosejr Wed, 22 Jul 2009 13:27:12 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3377#comment-62892 I've noticed that every time that a new in-service date is announced for this project, it is always seven years into the future. It seems like the contractors aren't making any progress on building this line, despite all of the disruption that 2nd Avenue is going through. We should start giving incentives, and enforcing penalties, if these projects can't get built on schedule. Then again, the MTA would probably just paying themselves for delays they cause. I’ve noticed that every time that a new in-service date is announced for this project, it is always seven years into the future. It seems like the contractors aren’t making any progress on building this line, despite all of the disruption that 2nd Avenue is going through. We should start giving incentives, and enforcing penalties, if these projects can’t get built on schedule. Then again, the MTA would probably just paying themselves for delays they cause.

]]>