Comments on: SAS future hazy in proposed capital program http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/08/14/sas-future-hazy-in-proposed-capital-program/ A New York City Subway Blog Sat, 26 May 2012 00:19:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Sending the SAS to Alphabet City :: Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/08/14/sas-future-hazy-in-proposed-capital-program/#comment-64838 Sending the SAS to Alphabet City :: Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog Tue, 22 Sep 2009 06:09:30 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3665#comment-64838 [...] about Phases II, III and IV, and in its Twenty Year Capital Needs Assessment, the MTA offered up nothing too concrete. In fact, the rest of the SAS generated just one line in a 97-page PDF document: “Phases II [...] [...] about Phases II, III and IV, and in its Twenty Year Capital Needs Assessment, the MTA offered up nothing too concrete. In fact, the rest of the SAS generated just one line in a 97-page PDF document: “Phases II [...]

]]> By: Kris Datta http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/08/14/sas-future-hazy-in-proposed-capital-program/#comment-63771 Kris Datta Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:55:31 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3665#comment-63771 Why is each station $4.5 billion? Why is each station $4.5 billion?

]]> By: Christopher http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/08/14/sas-future-hazy-in-proposed-capital-program/#comment-63626 Christopher Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:12:01 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3665#comment-63626 Absolutely deplorable public building programs. EIS in California is incredibly expensive. And includes things like sunlight modeling that people in the rest of the country never even think about. There was an article over winter by former Mass. governor Dukakis about need for better construction management and estimating -- citing how much cost escalation there was under the Romney on the Big Dig. Government agency has cut back staff that can do the kind of cost estimation and production management that keep things under check and replaced with private contractors that aren't beholden to protecting cost overruns. Other things to consider in comparing, LA is actually cheaper than SF as it tends to require less public input during planning and EIS stages. Although, you are partly right there are more underground utilities. As well construction industry is not been as long a place for government, union and mafia graft. Absolutely deplorable public building programs. EIS in California is incredibly expensive. And includes things like sunlight modeling that people in the rest of the country never even think about. There was an article over winter by former Mass. governor Dukakis about need for better construction management and estimating — citing how much cost escalation there was under the Romney on the Big Dig.

Government agency has cut back staff that can do the kind of cost estimation and production management that keep things under check and replaced with private contractors that aren’t beholden to protecting cost overruns.

Other things to consider in comparing, LA is actually cheaper than SF as it tends to require less public input during planning and EIS stages. Although, you are partly right there are more underground utilities. As well construction industry is not been as long a place for government, union and mafia graft.

]]> By: Think twice http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/08/14/sas-future-hazy-in-proposed-capital-program/#comment-63625 Think twice Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:54:42 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3665#comment-63625 [<i>Sigh</i>] Here's hoping the future will be about the Culver viaduct, the North Shore SIRT, and the Rogers Avenue Junction on the B'klyn IRT. [Sigh] Here’s hoping the future will be about the Culver viaduct, the North Shore SIRT, and the Rogers Avenue Junction on the B’klyn IRT.

]]> By: SEAN http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/08/14/sas-future-hazy-in-proposed-capital-program/#comment-63624 SEAN Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:40:54 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3665#comment-63624 In Los Angeles & San Francisco, subways need to be up to earthquake standereds acounting for the aditional cost. It has been said that the safest place in L A durring an earthquake is in the Red Line subway do to all of the reenforced walls & other elements put in durring construction. BART has been upgrading there system to bring it up to earthquake standereds as well, retrofitting trackways, stations, slabs & other elements. In Los Angeles & San Francisco, subways need to be up to earthquake standereds acounting for the aditional cost. It has been said that the safest place in L A durring an earthquake is in the Red Line subway do to all of the reenforced walls & other elements put in durring construction.

BART has been upgrading there system to bring it up to earthquake standereds as well, retrofitting trackways, stations, slabs & other elements.

]]> By: Adam http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/08/14/sas-future-hazy-in-proposed-capital-program/#comment-63619 Adam Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:18:10 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3665#comment-63619 What else could it be? In LA in particular there probably isn't a big mess of utilities that need to be moved. What else could it be? In LA in particular there probably isn’t a big mess of utilities that need to be moved.

]]> By: Adam http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/08/14/sas-future-hazy-in-proposed-capital-program/#comment-63618 Adam Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:17:24 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3665#comment-63618 Which makes me wonder why the Port Authority can't do it on the 6th street easement in Jersey City and under the Bergen Arches.... Which makes me wonder why the Port Authority can’t do it on the 6th street easement in Jersey City and under the Bergen Arches….

]]> By: Alon Levy http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/08/14/sas-future-hazy-in-proposed-capital-program/#comment-63608 Alon Levy Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:26:02 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3665#comment-63608 In San Francisco and Los Angeles, subway costs are about $300,000,000 per mile, one seventh as much as the average for the full SAS. So it can't be just the EIS process. In San Francisco and Los Angeles, subway costs are about $300,000,000 per mile, one seventh as much as the average for the full SAS. So it can’t be just the EIS process.

]]> By: Scott E http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/08/14/sas-future-hazy-in-proposed-capital-program/#comment-63606 Scott E Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:21:25 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3665#comment-63606 I agree that existing rail and ROW should be fully utilized. That's what they're doing (or talking about doing) along the north shore of Staten Island, and what Lee Sander proposed for that circuitous route through Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx. It may not attract the same ridership as some of the others, but considering the (relatively) low cost and quick speed, it still should be worth it. I agree that existing rail and ROW should be fully utilized. That’s what they’re doing (or talking about doing) along the north shore of Staten Island, and what Lee Sander proposed for that circuitous route through Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx. It may not attract the same ridership as some of the others, but considering the (relatively) low cost and quick speed, it still should be worth it.

]]> By: Scott E http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/08/14/sas-future-hazy-in-proposed-capital-program/#comment-63605 Scott E Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:17:15 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=3665#comment-63605 I should clarify -- the 125th Street station WILL sit underneath the 4/5/6 station. I don't believe it exists today (especially since it will run perpendicular to the Lex line), but staircases may only need to go up as far as the existing mezzanine and not to the street. I should clarify — the 125th Street station WILL sit underneath the 4/5/6 station. I don’t believe it exists today (especially since it will run perpendicular to the Lex line), but staircases may only need to go up as far as the existing mezzanine and not to the street.

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