Comments on: A weekend mess at Fulton St.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 05:43:23 +0000

Because the Queens politicians object strenuously every time the MTA tries, and the MTA ends up dropping it.

The weekend G to Forest Hills was only added in 2001 as a political concession, and the MTA made it quite clear at the time that it would rarely actually run.

By: Henry Man

Henry Man — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:27:06 +0000

The psychology then was then to compete with other companies. That is why companies built lines parallel to each other without offering an interchange.

It is in recent did they began to speak of passenger convenience more.

By: Henry Man

Henry Man — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:01:39 +0000

Technically, they are technically different stations. The 4/5 station was built first. Then the Clark Street Tunnel (the 2/3) opened later. Out of the matter of logistics, it was decided to have the inbound platform to be at level with the 4/5. The Montague Tunnel opened a year later. At that time, it was run by the BRT, who didn’t want to offer a connection to the then competing IRT.

Fulton Street is a story by itself. The IRT lines were the first to exist there. However, at that time, they were 2 blocks apart and the company saw no incentive to construct a passageway between them. No physical connection existed until 1931 when the Nassau Street Subway opened. Ramps and passageways showed up for the first time and where lined with turnstiles at the end of each ramp. This made sense as the construction of the Nassau Street line was, relatively, concurrent with the construction of the 8th Avenue line (which opened in 1932). Again, the companies did not seek to offer free connections, so the idea of a seamless interchange did not exist until well after the Unification.

To be frank, even with the Unification, barriers were not removed wholescale until the fare jumped from 5c to 10c. Many transfers then were not physical, transfer tickets were used (42nd Street and 5th Avenue)

By: Adam G

Adam G — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 19:08:25 +0000

Henry Man, just for reference, unless you’re going to Lawrence St or DeKalb Ave, it’s best to just stay on the 4 until Atlantic/Pacific and change to the R there.

The transfer between the Brooklyn-bound 4 platform and any of the other lines in the complex isn’t great; I live in the area, and I generally think of the 2/3/R and 4/5 stations as being two separate stations. I still don’t think it’s worse than Fulton St, though

By: Ed

Ed — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:21:04 +0000

Actually many of the transfers on the subway were jerry-rigged from formerly independent lines and are pretty crappy. Fixing them should be a pretty high capital construction priority.

At Borough Hall, getting between the M and R and the 2,3,4,5 is somewhat difficult because you are travelling between two stations, Court Street and Borough Hall itself, separated by two blocks. Its like trying to get between the 2,3, and F on 14th Street. But its hard to see how switching between the 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 could be any easier. To switch between the number trains, people are much better off trying to do that at Borough Hall than at Fulton Street.

By: Henry Man

Henry Man — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 05:35:14 +0000

The reason why it is so confusing is because the station was a shared station for 3 independent entities back then. It was well after Unification when fare barriers (that existed at the foot of the ramps) were removed. Even when the barriers were removed, the number of ramps used were rather intimidating as well.

The FSTC project involves extending the mezzanine level in both directions so that ramps would be removed, and that there will be no need to use the A/C platform for a transfer passageway (effectively freeing up some of the crowding here).

Borough Hall is one of the worst places to transfer. That station is even more confusing than FSTC. It took me around 7 minutes to get from the last car of the southbound 4 to the R platform at Borough Hall. The thing is, I had to cross-over to the uptown platform, walk all the way down (500 feet), then walk through the passageway to the uptown 2. Walk down the platform, go through another passageway, a flight of stairs…

FSTC got a lot of publicity, especially after the attacks. Of course, it is close to ground zero of FiDi, so there was a lot of politics involved. Borough Hall, though important, is not so attention-grasping as FSTC.

By: Benjamin Kabak

Benjamin Kabak — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:15:39 +0000

For now. The MTA slows down the major disruptions when a lot of tourists are in town. I would expect to see fewer changes between now and New Years.

By: Jerrold

Jerrold — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:11:40 +0000

Ben, I think my last comment and your last comment “crossed” each other.

What about the E?
Are they at least finished with the work that was requiring the incoming E to go down 6th Ave., and only until 34th St.?

By: Eric

Eric — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:10:00 +0000

Why doesn’t the MTA just give up the pretense that the G ever runs to Forest Hills?

By: Jerrold

Jerrold — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:06:09 +0000

Oh yes, and it seems that this is the first weeekend on a LONG time on which there are no service changes on the F, and none on the E. Both of these facts seem almost too good to be true.