Comments on: In London, a Circle opens up http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/11/25/in-london-a-circle-opens-up/ A New York City Subway Blog Sun, 12 Feb 2012 23:51:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Henry Man http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/11/25/in-london-a-circle-opens-up/#comment-67253 Henry Man Sat, 28 Nov 2009 01:14:15 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4350#comment-67253 Wouldn't such a move make the Hammersmith and City Line redundant? Wouldn’t such a move make the Hammersmith and City Line redundant?

]]> By: Julia http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/11/25/in-london-a-circle-opens-up/#comment-67219 Julia Thu, 26 Nov 2009 05:13:18 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4350#comment-67219 Glasgow's entire subway system is a single circle line! It's kind of adorable, actually. http://www.spt.co.uk/wmslib/Maps/subway_map.jpg Glasgow’s entire subway system is a single circle line! It’s kind of adorable, actually.

http://www.spt.co.uk/wmslib/Maps/subway_map.jpg

]]> By: Alon Levy http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/11/25/in-london-a-circle-opens-up/#comment-67216 Alon Levy Thu, 26 Nov 2009 02:01:57 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4350#comment-67216 Sorry, but what you're proposing is just drawing lines on a map. The line you're thinking of serves no transportation need. Most people don't actually need to get to the airport - current JFK AirTrain ridership is less than 5 million per year, which doesn't justify new rapid transit. For other purposes, the circle is too wide to be of use as a circumferential line; unlike the more serious circumferential proposal, Triboro RX, it doesn't do much for Queens-Bronx travel. In addition, the current AirTrain technology is incompatible with the rest of the subway. It's powered by linear induction motors, rather than the usual electric motors of the subway and commuter rail, and is not designed for high capacity. Sorry, but what you’re proposing is just drawing lines on a map. The line you’re thinking of serves no transportation need. Most people don’t actually need to get to the airport – current JFK AirTrain ridership is less than 5 million per year, which doesn’t justify new rapid transit. For other purposes, the circle is too wide to be of use as a circumferential line; unlike the more serious circumferential proposal, Triboro RX, it doesn’t do much for Queens-Bronx travel.

In addition, the current AirTrain technology is incompatible with the rest of the subway. It’s powered by linear induction motors, rather than the usual electric motors of the subway and commuter rail, and is not designed for high capacity.

]]> By: Ed http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/11/25/in-london-a-circle-opens-up/#comment-67214 Ed Thu, 26 Nov 2009 01:09:07 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4350#comment-67214 After spending too much time staring at subway maps, I thought of an idea for a New York circle line. It would run from JFK airport, through Jamaica, Flushing, and Astoria, across the East River near Harlem (possibly through Randall's Island), down 125th Street, then down the West Side of Manhattan, as close to the Hudson River as possible. It would connect with the PATH at least at financial district station. It would continue through the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, which would be converted from automobile use, into Brooklyn, through Red Hook, Bay Ridge, then across southern Brooklyn back to JFK. The idea would be to just extend the existing air train. The line would be mostly elevated, make fewer stops than even express trains, and cost $3. It would be used obviously primarily to get to the airport, but also provide for a faster commute to Manhattan for some Brooklyn and Queens neighborhoods underserved by subway service. It would improve access to the West Side Manhattan neighborhoods that are supposed to be the current or next big thing in real estate development, and provide connections, albeit at a higher fare between lots of lines outside Manhattan, something the current system is short on. By the way, you don't have to build elevated trains now the same way they were built in 1900, there is quieter and cleaner technology available. I've not suggested it here because, given the state's fiscal situation, it will never happen. Most of the current expansion plans will never happen. We should be focusing on which parts of the existing system we most want to save, and which should be abandoned when budgetary realities have to be dealt with. After spending too much time staring at subway maps, I thought of an idea for a New York circle line. It would run from JFK airport, through Jamaica, Flushing, and Astoria, across the East River near Harlem (possibly through Randall’s Island), down 125th Street, then down the West Side of Manhattan, as close to the Hudson River as possible. It would connect with the PATH at least at financial district station. It would continue through the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, which would be converted from automobile use, into Brooklyn, through Red Hook, Bay Ridge, then across southern Brooklyn back to JFK.

The idea would be to just extend the existing air train. The line would be mostly elevated, make fewer stops than even express trains, and cost $3. It would be used obviously primarily to get to the airport, but also provide for a faster commute to Manhattan for some Brooklyn and Queens neighborhoods underserved by subway service. It would improve access to the West Side Manhattan neighborhoods that are supposed to be the current or next big thing in real estate development, and provide connections, albeit at a higher fare between lots of lines outside Manhattan, something the current system is short on. By the way, you don’t have to build elevated trains now the same way they were built in 1900, there is quieter and cleaner technology available.

I’ve not suggested it here because, given the state’s fiscal situation, it will never happen. Most of the current expansion plans will never happen. We should be focusing on which parts of the existing system we most want to save, and which should be abandoned when budgetary realities have to be dealt with.

]]> By: Alon Levy http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/11/25/in-london-a-circle-opens-up/#comment-67210 Alon Levy Wed, 25 Nov 2009 23:31:17 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4350#comment-67210 The reason New York has no circular line has nothing to do with operational issues - it has to do with wide rivers and a CBD that's clustered in the west end of the city. Paris does fine with its pair of semicircles, and Tokyo does even better with its circular line, neither has had to deal with crossing rivers as wide as the East River or the Hudson, or with running the circle to suburbs in different states. The reason New York has no circular line has nothing to do with operational issues – it has to do with wide rivers and a CBD that’s clustered in the west end of the city. Paris does fine with its pair of semicircles, and Tokyo does even better with its circular line, neither has had to deal with crossing rivers as wide as the East River or the Hudson, or with running the circle to suburbs in different states.

]]> By: Alon Levy http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/11/25/in-london-a-circle-opens-up/#comment-67209 Alon Levy Wed, 25 Nov 2009 23:29:18 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4350#comment-67209 It's not a full circle, but a spiral. It’s not a full circle, but a spiral.

]]> By: Brian http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/11/25/in-london-a-circle-opens-up/#comment-67196 Brian Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:36:09 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4350#comment-67196 Berlin has its own Ringbahn (circle line). The S41 operates clockwise around the circle, the S42 operates counter-clockwise. Berlin has its own Ringbahn (circle line). The S41 operates clockwise around the circle, the S42 operates counter-clockwise.

]]> By: Josh http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/11/25/in-london-a-circle-opens-up/#comment-67195 Josh Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:55:21 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4350#comment-67195 You'll still be able to ride the full circle, you'll just have to do it (in either direction) from Edgware Road to Edgware Road, rather than from any station. You’ll still be able to ride the full circle, you’ll just have to do it (in either direction) from Edgware Road to Edgware Road, rather than from any station.

]]> By: Benjamin Kabak http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/11/25/in-london-a-circle-opens-up/#comment-67192 Benjamin Kabak Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:10:30 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4350#comment-67192 It's coming up at noon! I won't be able to make it to the reopening, but I'll have pictures ASAP. It’s coming up at noon! I won’t be able to make it to the reopening, but I’ll have pictures ASAP.

]]> By: A-W http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/11/25/in-london-a-circle-opens-up/#comment-67191 A-W Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:09:50 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4350#comment-67191 Thanks for the very interesting post and link. I'm also eager to see your post about the partial re-opening of the Cortlandt Street BMT station. Best wishes for a Happy Thanksgiving. Thanks for the very interesting post and link. I’m also eager to see your post about the partial re-opening of the Cortlandt Street BMT station.

Best wishes for a Happy Thanksgiving.

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