Comments on: The mathematics of cutting free student fares http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/12/15/the-mathematics-of-cutting-student-fares/ A New York City Subway Blog Mon, 13 Feb 2012 08:53:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Once more unto the Student MetroCard breach :: Second Ave. Sagas http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/12/15/the-mathematics-of-cutting-student-fares/#comment-122635 Once more unto the Student MetroCard breach :: Second Ave. Sagas Thu, 09 Dec 2010 19:02:02 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4539#comment-122635 [...] Straphangers had been influential in pushing to save the Student MetroCard program. They put out faulty math that overestimated the costs of paid transit by $300-$400 a year. They staged rallies. They held [...] [...] Straphangers had been influential in pushing to save the Student MetroCard program. They put out faulty math that overestimated the costs of paid transit by $300-$400 a year. They staged rallies. They held [...]

]]> By: John http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/12/15/the-mathematics-of-cutting-student-fares/#comment-80989 John Sat, 05 Jun 2010 03:20:22 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4539#comment-80989 I receive a Student MetroCard, so I have a skewed perspective on the whole idea of eliminating them. I'm going to point out the flaws that I saw in the calculations, many of which have already been pointed out 1) There are 180 school days in a year, not 280. Whoever put that into the calculator made a typo that exaggerated the figure by $300 - $400, not exactly pocket change. 2) Even if summer school were to be counted it can't possibly be more than 40 days. (20 work days per month x 2 months) I think it is only about 30 days, since it starts in July and ends about mid-August, if I am correct. Even with the extra 30 days, 30 x $1.96 (rounded)= $58.70. Add that to $704.35 for a total of at most $763.05 per year. 3) The only thing I can think of would be that the Straphangers Campaign is using a formula based on 3 rides per day. If that is the case, 1.96 (rounded) x 180 x 3 rides = $1,056.52. However, if a student planned on actually taking 3 rides per day, they would take the $89 monthly pass, for a total of $890 per year. Of course, they will publish the worst possible figure that they come up with, making extreme cases seem to be typical cases. I'm in this mock government club with the YMCA and some students were presenting bills. The kids went blindly with the figures. They said it would cost an extra $1,000 per child (when we all know it can't possibly come to more than $890). They really showed their stupidity when somebody asked how much it would cost the MTA to fund the program ($214 million), and they responded with the same opening statement "It would cost a family with 3 children making $28,000 per year $1,000 per child or $3,000 in additional expenses". That is probably the statement repeated over and over by advocates for the Student MetroCards. In the end, I know it would benefit me to keep my mouth shut about this and go with the $1,000 statements, but I can't agree with lies. I will make my own speech to the MTA regarding the way it affects the health of the city as a whole, but I will not start making up false figures. I receive a Student MetroCard, so I have a skewed perspective on the whole idea of eliminating them.
I’m going to point out the flaws that I saw in the calculations, many of which have already been pointed out

1) There are 180 school days in a year, not 280. Whoever put that into the calculator made a typo that exaggerated the figure by $300 – $400, not exactly pocket change.

2) Even if summer school were to be counted it can’t possibly be more than 40 days. (20 work days per month x 2 months) I think it is only about 30 days, since it starts in July and ends about mid-August, if I am correct. Even with the extra 30 days, 30 x $1.96 (rounded)= $58.70. Add that to $704.35 for a total of at most $763.05 per year.

3) The only thing I can think of would be that the Straphangers Campaign is using a formula based on 3 rides per day. If that is the case, 1.96 (rounded) x 180 x 3 rides = $1,056.52. However, if a student planned on actually taking 3 rides per day, they would take the $89 monthly pass, for a total of $890 per year.

Of course, they will publish the worst possible figure that they come up with, making extreme cases seem to be typical cases. I’m in this mock government club with the YMCA and some students were presenting bills. The kids went blindly with the figures. They said it would cost an extra $1,000 per child (when we all know it can’t possibly come to more than $890). They really showed their stupidity when somebody asked how much it would cost the MTA to fund the program ($214 million), and they responded with the same opening statement “It would cost a family with 3 children making $28,000 per year $1,000 per child or $3,000 in additional expenses”. That is probably the statement repeated over and over by advocates for the Student MetroCards.

In the end, I know it would benefit me to keep my mouth shut about this and go with the $1,000 statements, but I can’t agree with lies. I will make my own speech to the MTA regarding the way it affects the health of the city as a whole, but I will not start making up false figures.

]]> By: Scott E http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/12/15/the-mathematics-of-cutting-student-fares/#comment-68270 Scott E Wed, 16 Dec 2009 03:46:10 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4539#comment-68270 Probably $2.25 x 0.85 = $1.91, thinking that the passenger pays 85% and the bonus "pays" 15%. But this math is flawed, and you are correct. If you put $1.96 on a Metrocard and get a 15% bonus, you have a $1.96 x 1.15 = $2.25 card, equal to one fare. Probably $2.25 x 0.85 = $1.91, thinking that the passenger pays 85% and the bonus “pays” 15%. But this math is flawed, and you are correct. If you put $1.96 on a Metrocard and get a 15% bonus, you have a $1.96 x 1.15 = $2.25 card, equal to one fare.

]]> By: Ariel http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/12/15/the-mathematics-of-cutting-student-fares/#comment-68269 Ariel Wed, 16 Dec 2009 03:45:27 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4539#comment-68269 The Straphanger's Campaign are as big as incompetent clowns as the politicians in Albany. One must only look at the state of public transportation in transit-dependent New York to see what an inadequate job these "advocates" are doing. Rather than help the MTA get the funding it needs to provide proper transit, they bash it for problems it has little control over. Since it seems that the Campaign hasn't fully understood the situation yet, let me spell it out for them: The MTA MUST balance its budget and it has NO MONEY to fully fund their services. The ones responsible to provide the money is ALBANY. If you wish to keep the service cuts from happening, you must convince ALBANY to provide funds. Therefore, as an advocacy group that wishes to live up to its mission, you must direct all your clout and wrath toward ALBANY, so that they can make the change. The Straphanger’s Campaign are as big as incompetent clowns as the politicians in Albany. One must only look at the state of public transportation in transit-dependent New York to see what an inadequate job these “advocates” are doing. Rather than help the MTA get the funding it needs to provide proper transit, they bash it for problems it has little control over.

Since it seems that the Campaign hasn’t fully understood the situation yet, let me spell it out for them:

The MTA MUST balance its budget and it has NO MONEY to fully fund their services. The ones responsible to provide the money is ALBANY. If you wish to keep the service cuts from happening, you must convince ALBANY to provide funds. Therefore, as an advocacy group that wishes to live up to its mission, you must direct all your clout and wrath toward ALBANY, so that they can make the change.

]]> By: Andrew http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/12/15/the-mathematics-of-cutting-student-fares/#comment-68265 Andrew Wed, 16 Dec 2009 02:30:29 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4539#comment-68265 And where do they come up with that $1.91 number? According to my calculator, $2.25 / 1.15 = $1.96. And where do they come up with that $1.91 number? According to my calculator, $2.25 / 1.15 = $1.96.

]]> By: rhywun http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/12/15/the-mathematics-of-cutting-student-fares/#comment-68263 rhywun Wed, 16 Dec 2009 01:57:35 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4539#comment-68263 An embarrassing gaffe, to be sure, but the main point (if there is one) stands: parents shouldn't be footing the bill for this, not with the taxes we pay (and that includes non-parents like myself). Without a doubt there is enough waste and fraud in the education budget that can be unearthed in order to find the money to provide transportation for kids to go to school. The city should be footing the bill for this--it's disgraceful they've ducked the issue for so long. An embarrassing gaffe, to be sure, but the main point (if there is one) stands: parents shouldn’t be footing the bill for this, not with the taxes we pay (and that includes non-parents like myself). Without a doubt there is enough waste and fraud in the education budget that can be unearthed in order to find the money to provide transportation for kids to go to school. The city should be footing the bill for this–it’s disgraceful they’ve ducked the issue for so long.

]]> By: crescent http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/12/15/the-mathematics-of-cutting-student-fares/#comment-68257 crescent Tue, 15 Dec 2009 22:43:52 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4539#comment-68257 Bad math aside, Benjamin's point is spot on - the Straphangers have done so much complaining and so little suggesting of constructive solutions that they have gained a reputation for whining. Riders themselves are doing enough of it individually; why should the Straphangers perform the unnecessary function of validating it instead of helping the MTA out for the long-haul? Bad math aside, Benjamin’s point is spot on – the Straphangers have done so much complaining and so little suggesting of constructive solutions that they have gained a reputation for whining.

Riders themselves are doing enough of it individually; why should the Straphangers perform the unnecessary function of validating it instead of helping the MTA out for the long-haul?

]]> By: Marc Shepherd http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/12/15/the-mathematics-of-cutting-student-fares/#comment-68250 Marc Shepherd Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:17:47 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4539#comment-68250 You are much better off assuming that everything the Straphangers say will be nonsense. Occasionally, they'll pleasantly surprise you with a lucid moment, but most of the time your expectations will be met. You are much better off assuming that everything the Straphangers say will be nonsense. Occasionally, they’ll pleasantly surprise you with a lucid moment, but most of the time your expectations will be met.

]]> By: John http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/12/15/the-mathematics-of-cutting-student-fares/#comment-68247 John Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:03:59 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4539#comment-68247 Talk about a major goof. There aren't even 280 weekdays in a year, let alone WORK days, let alone SCHOOL days!! Talk about a major goof. There aren’t even 280 weekdays in a year, let alone WORK days, let alone SCHOOL days!!

]]> By: John http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/12/15/the-mathematics-of-cutting-student-fares/#comment-68246 John Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:01:03 +0000 http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4539#comment-68246 I don't think summer school could be 100 days, and even if it is, I don't think that should factor into a generic equation used to determine the cost to send an average student to school. I don’t think summer school could be 100 days, and even if it is, I don’t think that should factor into a generic equation used to determine the cost to send an average student to school.

]]>