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	<title>Comments on: In DC, more fresh coats of paint in less time</title>
	<atom:link href="http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/21/picking-up-the-paint-job-pace/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/21/picking-up-the-paint-job-pace/</link>
	<description>A New York City Subway Blog</description>
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		<title>By: rhywun</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/21/picking-up-the-paint-job-pace/#comment-70440</link>
		<dc:creator>rhywun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 03:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4866#comment-70440</guid>
		<description>Heh, true.

Then there&#039;s the tracks... which look as if they&#039;ve been trucking out the contents of the Fresh Kills Landfill and spreading it around town. I observe people just throw random stuff down there without a second thought and think that &quot;we&quot; users bear much of the blame for the disgusting state of our stations (and city).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh, true.</p>
<p>Then there&#8217;s the tracks&#8230; which look as if they&#8217;ve been trucking out the contents of the Fresh Kills Landfill and spreading it around town. I observe people just throw random stuff down there without a second thought and think that &#8220;we&#8221; users bear much of the blame for the disgusting state of our stations (and city).</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/21/picking-up-the-paint-job-pace/#comment-70435</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 01:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4866#comment-70435</guid>
		<description>I look at the same facts and see possibilities.  

Multiple entrances = TA can close one and work in the vicinity of that area.  

Platforms - Plenty of room for sections of platform to be closed while crews do their thing - even in the middle of the day.  The TA doesn&#039;t have sever the length of the platform, just take what&#039;s needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I look at the same facts and see possibilities.  </p>
<p>Multiple entrances = TA can close one and work in the vicinity of that area.  </p>
<p>Platforms &#8211; Plenty of room for sections of platform to be closed while crews do their thing &#8211; even in the middle of the day.  The TA doesn&#8217;t have sever the length of the platform, just take what&#8217;s needed.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/21/picking-up-the-paint-job-pace/#comment-70432</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 01:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4866#comment-70432</guid>
		<description>WC - are you serious?   Which stations do you think are the primary focus?  I live in the Village just south of Union Square - my commutes take me to Herald Square and Times Square almost every day.  Seems to me station floors, walls and stairs are perpetually filthy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WC &#8211; are you serious?   Which stations do you think are the primary focus?  I live in the Village just south of Union Square &#8211; my commutes take me to Herald Square and Times Square almost every day.  Seems to me station floors, walls and stairs are perpetually filthy.</p>
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		<title>By: StreetsPariah</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/21/picking-up-the-paint-job-pace/#comment-70359</link>
		<dc:creator>StreetsPariah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4866#comment-70359</guid>
		<description>I would love to know when the Broadway (or Brodaway) G station was last painted or refurbished.  There are some seriously gross orange stains all over the platforms.  Walk to the north end of the station and you can see the point where the cleaners just start to give up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would love to know when the Broadway (or Brodaway) G station was last painted or refurbished.  There are some seriously gross orange stains all over the platforms.  Walk to the north end of the station and you can see the point where the cleaners just start to give up.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/21/picking-up-the-paint-job-pace/#comment-70357</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4866#comment-70357</guid>
		<description>Actually the station density in the core is fairly high in DC. But part of what makes NY&#039;s feel denser is that we have many, many more entrances. 

Most of DC&#039;s system was built in the 70s and 80s, before ADA. They had a requirement, though, from the beginning to include accessibility. (In fact there was a delay opening the system as there were lawsuits over elevators.) 

But NY has added connections in that same time frame, especially in and near Times Square that have aided in the connectivity of our system while also being accessible. DC&#039;s system very badly needs expansion in the core, and very much needs connectivity between stations and added entrances, but the design and build process -- to say nothing of the funding -- is a serious hindrance. Those lovely expensive stations look great. And were meant to invoke the great train stations and particularly Union Station, but money was free flowing to build the Cadillac of train systems. A showplace for post WWII power. (Older stations that were built for the long gone DC streetcar network were far more utilitarian.) 

Now that focus on trying to replicate that type of building stile and standardization gets in the way. (And newer stations have diverted from that sameness while keeping things like the hexagon tile. And use of brass for the metal.)

Thankfully, newer buildings especially in dense areas like Arlington, have started to accommodate room for future station enhancements. Now just to find the funding...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually the station density in the core is fairly high in DC. But part of what makes NY&#8217;s feel denser is that we have many, many more entrances. </p>
<p>Most of DC&#8217;s system was built in the 70s and 80s, before ADA. They had a requirement, though, from the beginning to include accessibility. (In fact there was a delay opening the system as there were lawsuits over elevators.) </p>
<p>But NY has added connections in that same time frame, especially in and near Times Square that have aided in the connectivity of our system while also being accessible. DC&#8217;s system very badly needs expansion in the core, and very much needs connectivity between stations and added entrances, but the design and build process &#8212; to say nothing of the funding &#8212; is a serious hindrance. Those lovely expensive stations look great. And were meant to invoke the great train stations and particularly Union Station, but money was free flowing to build the Cadillac of train systems. A showplace for post WWII power. (Older stations that were built for the long gone DC streetcar network were far more utilitarian.) </p>
<p>Now that focus on trying to replicate that type of building stile and standardization gets in the way. (And newer stations have diverted from that sameness while keeping things like the hexagon tile. And use of brass for the metal.)</p>
<p>Thankfully, newer buildings especially in dense areas like Arlington, have started to accommodate room for future station enhancements. Now just to find the funding&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anon</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/21/picking-up-the-paint-job-pace/#comment-70356</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4866#comment-70356</guid>
		<description>Getting a Fresh coat of Management soon.  DC guy just quit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getting a Fresh coat of Management soon.  DC guy just quit.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan D.</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/21/picking-up-the-paint-job-pace/#comment-70342</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 21:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4866#comment-70342</guid>
		<description>Well, and part of it is that the system was mostly built out at a time of ADA compliance, etc.  Think about what it&#039;s taken to build the newest 10 stations in NYC.  It&#039;s been the last 20+ years, and they have 6 more until 8-10 are open (and 2 more for #7). Since the station distances are so far apart in DC, the fact that there aren&#039;t entrances all over makes much less of a difference too.  There&#039;s what, 86 stations and 106 miles of routes?  In NYC it&#039;s 468 stations and only 229 miles.  That&#039;s a major difference in station density.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, and part of it is that the system was mostly built out at a time of ADA compliance, etc.  Think about what it&#8217;s taken to build the newest 10 stations in NYC.  It&#8217;s been the last 20+ years, and they have 6 more until 8-10 are open (and 2 more for #7). Since the station distances are so far apart in DC, the fact that there aren&#8217;t entrances all over makes much less of a difference too.  There&#8217;s what, 86 stations and 106 miles of routes?  In NYC it&#8217;s 468 stations and only 229 miles.  That&#8217;s a major difference in station density.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/21/picking-up-the-paint-job-pace/#comment-70341</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 20:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4866#comment-70341</guid>
		<description>They aren&#039;t painted except for in a few place. They tried to paint them a few years ago as thinking that would speed things up instead of powerwashing. Turns out it doesn&#039;t. At all.

So the majority are rough concrete. The overhangs are new and probably won&#039;t require painting for years to come if ever. They maybe powder coated at present and designed to not be painted.

Oddly the DC system takes a lot more money and space and planning to build station. Part of the reason their are so few entrances is that the process is costly, and must fit the design guidelines of the original system -- out of necessity of getting through the planning process as well as the design-nannies within DC urbanists. This doesn&#039;t allow you to shoehorn in new entrances, new mezzanines and everything else that NYC does. They&#039;ve talked about joining two stations downtown for decades. NY would have done it along time ago. Just put in a tunnel and been done with it. This also means that the NY system is not at all standardized, so maintenance is more time consuming and costly. 

Advantage is we have a much more comprehensive system in my opinion. I lived in DC twice and find the system is wonderful as a showplace, but less useable as transportation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They aren&#8217;t painted except for in a few place. They tried to paint them a few years ago as thinking that would speed things up instead of powerwashing. Turns out it doesn&#8217;t. At all.</p>
<p>So the majority are rough concrete. The overhangs are new and probably won&#8217;t require painting for years to come if ever. They maybe powder coated at present and designed to not be painted.</p>
<p>Oddly the DC system takes a lot more money and space and planning to build station. Part of the reason their are so few entrances is that the process is costly, and must fit the design guidelines of the original system &#8212; out of necessity of getting through the planning process as well as the design-nannies within DC urbanists. This doesn&#8217;t allow you to shoehorn in new entrances, new mezzanines and everything else that NYC does. They&#8217;ve talked about joining two stations downtown for decades. NY would have done it along time ago. Just put in a tunnel and been done with it. This also means that the NY system is not at all standardized, so maintenance is more time consuming and costly. </p>
<p>Advantage is we have a much more comprehensive system in my opinion. I lived in DC twice and find the system is wonderful as a showplace, but less useable as transportation.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan D.</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/21/picking-up-the-paint-job-pace/#comment-70338</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 20:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4866#comment-70338</guid>
		<description>Well, the breakdown is 39 above and 47 underground for the whole system.  There&#039;s not a major difference in paint application between the two.  In fact, if they&#039;re repainting the gull wing roofs, there is probably more paint to be used outside than inside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the breakdown is 39 above and 47 underground for the whole system.  There&#8217;s not a major difference in paint application between the two.  In fact, if they&#8217;re repainting the gull wing roofs, there is probably more paint to be used outside than inside.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan D.</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/21/picking-up-the-paint-job-pace/#comment-70336</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 20:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4866#comment-70336</guid>
		<description>So while it shouldn&#039;t, there&#039;s some complications arising from the difference in styles.  Most NYC stations have far more entrances than the ones down in DC (most stations here feel lucky to have 1 entrance at all let alone 2).  That greatly increases the number of pieces of the station that must be closed off for a day at a time to paint and dry.  The other big problem is painting the ceiling.  Because the station can never be closed, you need to scrape, paint, and block different pieces of the ceiling over time.  This alone is probably the biggest part of any given task.  From watching the 181st St repaint/reno going on, they haven&#039;t even begun to try tackling the ceiling, having painted only one small strip to test things out.  The rest of the station took the better part of a week to clean and paint in pieces.  If they&#039;re doing the reno the correct way in NYC, they also need to reseal the station from leaks.  There aren&#039;t nearly so many leaks in DC as their are in NYC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So while it shouldn&#8217;t, there&#8217;s some complications arising from the difference in styles.  Most NYC stations have far more entrances than the ones down in DC (most stations here feel lucky to have 1 entrance at all let alone 2).  That greatly increases the number of pieces of the station that must be closed off for a day at a time to paint and dry.  The other big problem is painting the ceiling.  Because the station can never be closed, you need to scrape, paint, and block different pieces of the ceiling over time.  This alone is probably the biggest part of any given task.  From watching the 181st St repaint/reno going on, they haven&#8217;t even begun to try tackling the ceiling, having painted only one small strip to test things out.  The rest of the station took the better part of a week to clean and paint in pieces.  If they&#8217;re doing the reno the correct way in NYC, they also need to reseal the station from leaks.  There aren&#8217;t nearly so many leaks in DC as their are in NYC.</p>
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