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	<title>Comments on: Purpose &amp; Design: A look at subway maps</title>
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	<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/29/purpose-design-a-look-at-subway-maps/</link>
	<description>A New York City Subway Blog</description>
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		<title>By: A New York City cartographer&#8217;s dream job :: Second Ave. Sagas</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/29/purpose-design-a-look-at-subway-maps/#comment-95378</link>
		<dc:creator>A New York City cartographer&#8217;s dream job :: Second Ave. Sagas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4946#comment-95378</guid>
		<description>[...] brains of the person who lands this job. After all, who doesn&#8217;t have their own views on the design and purpose of the city&#8217;s ubiquitous map?    Categories : Subway [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] brains of the person who lands this job. After all, who doesn&#8217;t have their own views on the design and purpose of the city&#8217;s ubiquitous map?    Categories : Subway [...]</p>
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		<title>By: With service changes, MTA refreshes its map :: Second Ave. Sagas</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/29/purpose-design-a-look-at-subway-maps/#comment-80038</link>
		<dc:creator>With service changes, MTA refreshes its map :: Second Ave. Sagas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 05:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4946#comment-80038</guid>
		<description>[...] as I&#8217;ve written in the past, the New York City Transit Authority and later the MTA have struggled to balance the purpose and design of the subway map with geography first taking a back seat to design and, more recently, design falling behind [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] as I&#8217;ve written in the past, the New York City Transit Authority and later the MTA have struggled to balance the purpose and design of the subway map with geography first taking a back seat to design and, more recently, design falling behind [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jaystreet</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/29/purpose-design-a-look-at-subway-maps/#comment-71248</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaystreet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4946#comment-71248</guid>
		<description>The Vignelli map, while beautifully simple, ignored one well-known trait about a good portion of Manhattan - its streets are in a rigid grid. And when you heavily distort a fixed grid, it becomes confusing. Paris and London can get away with it because their streets aren&#039;t as orderly.

The Kick Map does combine the &#039;mildly distorted&#039; MTA map with the angular, straightforward route approximation of Vignelli&#039;s, as well as separate lines for each route, which I always felt was one great part of Vignelli&#039;s map. I think the MTA&#039;s map is due for a major overhaul. 

Flat panels on new subway cars with changing maps (based on time of day) would be a HUGE improvement, as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Vignelli map, while beautifully simple, ignored one well-known trait about a good portion of Manhattan &#8211; its streets are in a rigid grid. And when you heavily distort a fixed grid, it becomes confusing. Paris and London can get away with it because their streets aren&#8217;t as orderly.</p>
<p>The Kick Map does combine the &#8216;mildly distorted&#8217; MTA map with the angular, straightforward route approximation of Vignelli&#8217;s, as well as separate lines for each route, which I always felt was one great part of Vignelli&#8217;s map. I think the MTA&#8217;s map is due for a major overhaul. </p>
<p>Flat panels on new subway cars with changing maps (based on time of day) would be a HUGE improvement, as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Eddie Jabbour</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/29/purpose-design-a-look-at-subway-maps/#comment-71245</link>
		<dc:creator>Eddie Jabbour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4946#comment-71245</guid>
		<description>I would LOVE the MTA to test the KickMap against their current one! Both to natives and to tourists. Really test it. Let&#039;s see!  
Thank for all the comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would LOVE the MTA to test the KickMap against their current one! Both to natives and to tourists. Really test it. Let&#8217;s see!<br />
Thank for all the comments.</p>
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		<title>By: AB</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/29/purpose-design-a-look-at-subway-maps/#comment-71148</link>
		<dc:creator>AB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4946#comment-71148</guid>
		<description>I believe the reason that the 42nd Street Shuttle is not listed as accessible is because of the gap fillers at Times Square.  Also, I&#039;m not sure about the slope of the passageway at the Grand Central end, but I&#039;m pretty sure the gap fillers are what &quot;disqualify&quot; it.  This would have been fixed in the planned rebuilding of the shuttle station, but I think that is on indefinite hold due to both funding (of course) and trying to finalize the plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the reason that the 42nd Street Shuttle is not listed as accessible is because of the gap fillers at Times Square.  Also, I&#8217;m not sure about the slope of the passageway at the Grand Central end, but I&#8217;m pretty sure the gap fillers are what &#8220;disqualify&#8221; it.  This would have been fixed in the planned rebuilding of the shuttle station, but I think that is on indefinite hold due to both funding (of course) and trying to finalize the plan.</p>
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		<title>By: James Bunting</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/29/purpose-design-a-look-at-subway-maps/#comment-71130</link>
		<dc:creator>James Bunting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:32:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4946#comment-71130</guid>
		<description>It is very important in England to use the qualifyer Street, Circus, etc after the name as we may have several streets or places.  It is in the same way that you may have an 8th Street and an 8th Avenue.  &#039;North of Oxford&#039; to me means a point north of Oxford, a city 40 miles North West of London.  &#039;North of Oxford Street&#039; would mean north of the one mile long street of that name, running between Marble Arch and Tottenham Court Road on the Central (red) line. &#039;North of Oxford Circus&#039; would be a much more precise location meaning north of the junction named Oxford Circus formed by the intersection of Oxford Street and Regent Street.  This is midway along Oxford Street.

The map that Beck created, and has evolved through time, serves a number of different roles.  It has never pretended to be geographically correctly, in fact almost intentionally not.  It started life at a time when the Underground system was expanding rapidly into the suburbs.  By removing the geography it helped to sell travel by Underground to people who would otherwise, in their mind, have thought that Central London was too far away for them to travel.  At that time the furthest point on the system was Aylesbury, 30 or so miles North West of the centre on the Metropolitan Line (purple).

Whilst the map suffers from not being able to show how near or far some places are to each other it has enabled many people to create a mental map for then to work from.  There is a central reference point - the River Thames.  When this was taken out last year the was a big outcry and the Mayor had it put back again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is very important in England to use the qualifyer Street, Circus, etc after the name as we may have several streets or places.  It is in the same way that you may have an 8th Street and an 8th Avenue.  &#8216;North of Oxford&#8217; to me means a point north of Oxford, a city 40 miles North West of London.  &#8216;North of Oxford Street&#8217; would mean north of the one mile long street of that name, running between Marble Arch and Tottenham Court Road on the Central (red) line. &#8216;North of Oxford Circus&#8217; would be a much more precise location meaning north of the junction named Oxford Circus formed by the intersection of Oxford Street and Regent Street.  This is midway along Oxford Street.</p>
<p>The map that Beck created, and has evolved through time, serves a number of different roles.  It has never pretended to be geographically correctly, in fact almost intentionally not.  It started life at a time when the Underground system was expanding rapidly into the suburbs.  By removing the geography it helped to sell travel by Underground to people who would otherwise, in their mind, have thought that Central London was too far away for them to travel.  At that time the furthest point on the system was Aylesbury, 30 or so miles North West of the centre on the Metropolitan Line (purple).</p>
<p>Whilst the map suffers from not being able to show how near or far some places are to each other it has enabled many people to create a mental map for then to work from.  There is a central reference point &#8211; the River Thames.  When this was taken out last year the was a big outcry and the Mayor had it put back again.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/29/purpose-design-a-look-at-subway-maps/#comment-71121</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 04:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4946#comment-71121</guid>
		<description>I like some of the approach of the KICK map but don&#039;t like the color scheme at all.  This is probably purely a matter of taste.  But really, the current map would be fine if they just took out the bus information.

I&#039;ve thought of how I&#039;d design a NY subway map and may give it a try sometime.  I&#039;ve thought of this basic approach:

1.  Portray each line separately, like the KICK map, but using thinner lines (using thinner lines would allow for more geographical accuracy).

2.  Portray each line differently depending on if it runs all the time, including late nights and weekends, or doesn&#039;t run late nights, doesn&#039;t run weekends, or runs only during rush hour.  I&#039;m thinking of a solid line with a black border for trains -like the 6- that pretty much run all the time.  You can catch a 6, or a 4 or 5 running on the 6 line and making 6 stops, at 3 on Sunday morning but this is not the case with many, maybe most, lines.  A train that runs all days, including weekends, but not late nights would be a solid line with a white border.  A train that doesn&#039;t run weekends would be shown as a series of dashes, and a train that only runs rush hours would be shown as a series of dots.

For example, on the Lexington Avenue line, the 6 would be a solid green line with a black border.  The 4 and 5 would be solid green lines with white borders in Manhattan, but the 5 would become a series of dashes in Brooklyn.  Since the lines themselves are treated differently, there is no need to space them far enough or make them thick to distinguish them.

And no bus or SIR information, though you might want to show at least the NYC portion of the PATH and the various commuter trains.  Now the bus map is the one that needs a pretty radical redesign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like some of the approach of the KICK map but don&#8217;t like the color scheme at all.  This is probably purely a matter of taste.  But really, the current map would be fine if they just took out the bus information.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve thought of how I&#8217;d design a NY subway map and may give it a try sometime.  I&#8217;ve thought of this basic approach:</p>
<p>1.  Portray each line separately, like the KICK map, but using thinner lines (using thinner lines would allow for more geographical accuracy).</p>
<p>2.  Portray each line differently depending on if it runs all the time, including late nights and weekends, or doesn&#8217;t run late nights, doesn&#8217;t run weekends, or runs only during rush hour.  I&#8217;m thinking of a solid line with a black border for trains -like the 6- that pretty much run all the time.  You can catch a 6, or a 4 or 5 running on the 6 line and making 6 stops, at 3 on Sunday morning but this is not the case with many, maybe most, lines.  A train that runs all days, including weekends, but not late nights would be a solid line with a white border.  A train that doesn&#8217;t run weekends would be shown as a series of dashes, and a train that only runs rush hours would be shown as a series of dots.</p>
<p>For example, on the Lexington Avenue line, the 6 would be a solid green line with a black border.  The 4 and 5 would be solid green lines with white borders in Manhattan, but the 5 would become a series of dashes in Brooklyn.  Since the lines themselves are treated differently, there is no need to space them far enough or make them thick to distinguish them.</p>
<p>And no bus or SIR information, though you might want to show at least the NYC portion of the PATH and the various commuter trains.  Now the bus map is the one that needs a pretty radical redesign.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Anon</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/29/purpose-design-a-look-at-subway-maps/#comment-71107</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 17:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4946#comment-71107</guid>
		<description>The Map *does* include Ft. Greene Park.  In fact, it&#039;s right there on the version included in your post!  (The abbreviated subway map on the MTA website doesn&#039;t, but that&#039;s not the same as The Map.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Map *does* include Ft. Greene Park.  In fact, it&#8217;s right there on the version included in your post!  (The abbreviated subway map on the MTA website doesn&#8217;t, but that&#8217;s not the same as The Map.)</p>
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		<title>By: herenthere</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/29/purpose-design-a-look-at-subway-maps/#comment-71092</link>
		<dc:creator>herenthere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 00:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4946#comment-71092</guid>
		<description>but the only thing about London&#039;s map is that if you are a tourist, and you&#039;re trying to go &quot;North of Oxford&quot; then you would have no idea? It seems like a little geography helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but the only thing about London&#8217;s map is that if you are a tourist, and you&#8217;re trying to go &#8220;North of Oxford&#8221; then you would have no idea? It seems like a little geography helps.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/29/purpose-design-a-look-at-subway-maps/#comment-71090</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=4946#comment-71090</guid>
		<description>Admittedly, the T map is also easier to use because so many of the stops are named for easily identifiable places, particularly the Red Line stations, which are almost always named for their squares (Andrew Square, Kendall Sq, Central Sq, Harvard Sq, Porter Sq).  The Green Line, except for the D, stays on only one street once it goes above-ground, so you can immediately know that an E-line stop called &quot;Longwood Avenue&quot; is at Longwood and Huntington, etc.  The only difficult thing is the Orange Line and the D line, and the D line is really just a miniature commuter train anyhow.

I did OK with the T map even when I didn&#039;t know Boston at all, but I&#039;ve been lately potentially training a trip to London and I&#039;ve found the London Tube map to be outrageously difficult for someone who doesn&#039;t know much about London yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Admittedly, the T map is also easier to use because so many of the stops are named for easily identifiable places, particularly the Red Line stations, which are almost always named for their squares (Andrew Square, Kendall Sq, Central Sq, Harvard Sq, Porter Sq).  The Green Line, except for the D, stays on only one street once it goes above-ground, so you can immediately know that an E-line stop called &#8220;Longwood Avenue&#8221; is at Longwood and Huntington, etc.  The only difficult thing is the Orange Line and the D line, and the D line is really just a miniature commuter train anyhow.</p>
<p>I did OK with the T map even when I didn&#8217;t know Boston at all, but I&#8217;ve been lately potentially training a trip to London and I&#8217;ve found the London Tube map to be outrageously difficult for someone who doesn&#8217;t know much about London yet.</p>
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