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	<title>Comments on: Inside the WTC Calatrava transit hub</title>
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	<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/07/29/inside-the-wtc-calatrava-transit-hub/</link>
	<description>A New York City Subway Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Deny</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/07/29/inside-the-wtc-calatrava-transit-hub/#comment-95152</link>
		<dc:creator>Deny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 16:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=6547#comment-95152</guid>
		<description>I have always found it interesting when people freak out about the cost of projects. Where do you think the money goes to? It doesn&#039;t miraculously disappear into the pocket of some random coroporation. It is invested in the citizens of NY, whether it is the welder, the engineer, the security guard, or the crane operator. We should be encouraging a higher level of design and architecture, as these become the monuments of the future.

The Empire State Building was originally thought to be ridiculous in scale, too costly, and nick-named &quot;The Empty State Building&quot; because no one could comprehend having office space so high up. And yet 80 years later, it is one of America&#039;s most discernible and loved piece of architecture.

Spend the money now on an architectural monument for generations to come. If you don&#039;t care about architecture, view the price tag as yet another economic stimulus package, caring for the citizens of NY. 

&quot;Dissatisfaction and discouragement are not caused by the absence of things but the absence of vision.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have always found it interesting when people freak out about the cost of projects. Where do you think the money goes to? It doesn&#8217;t miraculously disappear into the pocket of some random coroporation. It is invested in the citizens of NY, whether it is the welder, the engineer, the security guard, or the crane operator. We should be encouraging a higher level of design and architecture, as these become the monuments of the future.</p>
<p>The Empire State Building was originally thought to be ridiculous in scale, too costly, and nick-named &#8220;The Empty State Building&#8221; because no one could comprehend having office space so high up. And yet 80 years later, it is one of America&#8217;s most discernible and loved piece of architecture.</p>
<p>Spend the money now on an architectural monument for generations to come. If you don&#8217;t care about architecture, view the price tag as yet another economic stimulus package, caring for the citizens of NY. </p>
<p>&#8220;Dissatisfaction and discouragement are not caused by the absence of things but the absence of vision.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/07/29/inside-the-wtc-calatrava-transit-hub/#comment-89410</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 00:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=6547#comment-89410</guid>
		<description>...or is it?

PATH was originally built to interconnect the terminals of a (large) number of long-distance rail carriers, and to connect them to Manhattan.  Now most of those terminals are gone, but it still connects Hoboken and Newark to downtown; is it possible that it&#039;s still used for connections to the rail lines at those stations?  (Is anyone clever enough to put an electronic schedule board up duplicating the one at Newark, with a sign saying &quot;TAKE PATH X minutes before your train departs Newark&quot;?)

OK, probably this is an insignificant market now.  Just a thought though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;or is it?</p>
<p>PATH was originally built to interconnect the terminals of a (large) number of long-distance rail carriers, and to connect them to Manhattan.  Now most of those terminals are gone, but it still connects Hoboken and Newark to downtown; is it possible that it&#8217;s still used for connections to the rail lines at those stations?  (Is anyone clever enough to put an electronic schedule board up duplicating the one at Newark, with a sign saying &#8220;TAKE PATH X minutes before your train departs Newark&#8221;?)</p>
<p>OK, probably this is an insignificant market now.  Just a thought though.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/07/29/inside-the-wtc-calatrava-transit-hub/#comment-89408</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 00:12:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=6547#comment-89408</guid>
		<description>Hrrrm?  The transit center part of it serves *only* people taking PATH (whether they&#039;re connecting to something else or not).  People coming in on the numerous subway lines to the east find themselves in other stations constructed with other funding, and of course pedestrians can and do go at street level.

Functionally, it&#039;s for PATH.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hrrrm?  The transit center part of it serves *only* people taking PATH (whether they&#8217;re connecting to something else or not).  People coming in on the numerous subway lines to the east find themselves in other stations constructed with other funding, and of course pedestrians can and do go at street level.</p>
<p>Functionally, it&#8217;s for PATH.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/07/29/inside-the-wtc-calatrava-transit-hub/#comment-89405</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 00:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=6547#comment-89405</guid>
		<description>It still has no schedule for construction, right?  If I&#039;m not mistaken, it&#039;s still unfunded.  With the stimulus funding coming through, Fulton St. Transit Center will be done before they break ground....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It still has no schedule for construction, right?  If I&#8217;m not mistaken, it&#8217;s still unfunded.  With the stimulus funding coming through, Fulton St. Transit Center will be done before they break ground&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/07/29/inside-the-wtc-calatrava-transit-hub/#comment-88237</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 01:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=6547#comment-88237</guid>
		<description>I never found a regular turnstile/booth entrance there -- if you had a token/Metrocard, you could get it; if not, you had to go out onto Vesey Street, and the slope of the land along Vescy meant direct access from the WTC concourse was difficult and the street saw very little pedestrian traffic, even compared with Liberty Street on the south side of the complex.

My guess is the MTA and/or Port Authority did it the way they did it because with Greenwich Street blocked off, sticking the 24/7 entrance on the south side of the street basically created a street-level headhouse like at Bowling Green or 72nd Street -- albeit one built into the side of the WTC complex wall -- that could span the tracks and allow one booth and one set of turnstiles to serve both the uptown and downtown trains.

 I&#039;m just not sure why they didn&#039;t do the same thing inside the complex (though when it was originally built, there really wasn&#039;t much nighttime activity in the area west of the PATH escalators where any entrance/exit would have been, and the thinking might have been putting it on the street would make it easier to get to from other area buildings). And even if they&#039;re going to have the PATH escalator bank slightly to the east of where it formerly was, there&#039;s no reason for the money they&#039;re spending not to make sure the new site has easy access between the new Cortlandt Street station, PATH and the other lines further to the east.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never found a regular turnstile/booth entrance there &#8212; if you had a token/Metrocard, you could get it; if not, you had to go out onto Vesey Street, and the slope of the land along Vescy meant direct access from the WTC concourse was difficult and the street saw very little pedestrian traffic, even compared with Liberty Street on the south side of the complex.</p>
<p>My guess is the MTA and/or Port Authority did it the way they did it because with Greenwich Street blocked off, sticking the 24/7 entrance on the south side of the street basically created a street-level headhouse like at Bowling Green or 72nd Street &#8212; albeit one built into the side of the WTC complex wall &#8212; that could span the tracks and allow one booth and one set of turnstiles to serve both the uptown and downtown trains.</p>
<p> I&#8217;m just not sure why they didn&#8217;t do the same thing inside the complex (though when it was originally built, there really wasn&#8217;t much nighttime activity in the area west of the PATH escalators where any entrance/exit would have been, and the thinking might have been putting it on the street would make it easier to get to from other area buildings). And even if they&#8217;re going to have the PATH escalator bank slightly to the east of where it formerly was, there&#8217;s no reason for the money they&#8217;re spending not to make sure the new site has easy access between the new Cortlandt Street station, PATH and the other lines further to the east.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/07/29/inside-the-wtc-calatrava-transit-hub/#comment-88189</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 06:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=6547#comment-88189</guid>
		<description>I always thought the WTC PATH station had an odd layout. I recall the PATH station to be dimly lit and it wasn&#039;t bright.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always thought the WTC PATH station had an odd layout. I recall the PATH station to be dimly lit and it wasn&#8217;t bright.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/07/29/inside-the-wtc-calatrava-transit-hub/#comment-88184</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 02:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=6547#comment-88184</guid>
		<description>Interesting.  I never used that station regularly, but I could have sworn that, when I did, I entered the uptown 1 from inside the WTC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting.  I never used that station regularly, but I could have sworn that, when I did, I entered the uptown 1 from inside the WTC.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/07/29/inside-the-wtc-calatrava-transit-hub/#comment-88151</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=6547#comment-88151</guid>
		<description>None inside the original WTC layout I ever found -- to board the 1, either Chambers-bound or South Ferry-bound without having a token (or, in its final years, a Metrocard), you had to go outside the complex to Vesey and Greenwich, at the far north end of the IRT station where the entrance for both directions for the 1 were located, which I believe was created in the early 1970s. Inside the complex, there were just tiny exits/iron maiden entrances located just to the south of the main escalator bank down to the PATH concourse that had replaced the original main entrances and exits to the IRT station (as designed the PATH escalator bank started off above and to the east of the Cortlandt Street station, then descended underneath it, before ending below and to the west of the station at the PATH concourse).

While I know the Cortlandt Street Station, as it was after 1968, no longer could connect to Cordlandt Street, since it was obliterated west of Church, the station access for the No. 1 was possibly the most counter-intuitive of any station in the entire system, pre-9/11 -- the least accessible entrances were placed where the most people were passing through, while the 24/7 staffed entrance was placed in one of the least-accessible sites for anyone inside the WTC complex to find. Surely they can&#039;t make the same mistake twice (but we are talking the MTA and the Port Authority here...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>None inside the original WTC layout I ever found &#8212; to board the 1, either Chambers-bound or South Ferry-bound without having a token (or, in its final years, a Metrocard), you had to go outside the complex to Vesey and Greenwich, at the far north end of the IRT station where the entrance for both directions for the 1 were located, which I believe was created in the early 1970s. Inside the complex, there were just tiny exits/iron maiden entrances located just to the south of the main escalator bank down to the PATH concourse that had replaced the original main entrances and exits to the IRT station (as designed the PATH escalator bank started off above and to the east of the Cortlandt Street station, then descended underneath it, before ending below and to the west of the station at the PATH concourse).</p>
<p>While I know the Cortlandt Street Station, as it was after 1968, no longer could connect to Cordlandt Street, since it was obliterated west of Church, the station access for the No. 1 was possibly the most counter-intuitive of any station in the entire system, pre-9/11 &#8212; the least accessible entrances were placed where the most people were passing through, while the 24/7 staffed entrance was placed in one of the least-accessible sites for anyone inside the WTC complex to find. Surely they can&#8217;t make the same mistake twice (but we are talking the MTA and the Port Authority here&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/07/29/inside-the-wtc-calatrava-transit-hub/#comment-88070</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 07:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=6547#comment-88070</guid>
		<description>Lots of retail doesn&#039;t improve stations. On the contrary, at very busy stations (e.g. People&#039;s Square), it&#039;s better to remove the retail to allocate more space to passengers.

Nothing you&#039;ve mentioned suggests any sort of coordination. It suggests haste. If this is getting things done as quickly as possible, I don&#039;t want to think what getting things done slowly is in New York.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lots of retail doesn&#8217;t improve stations. On the contrary, at very busy stations (e.g. People&#8217;s Square), it&#8217;s better to remove the retail to allocate more space to passengers.</p>
<p>Nothing you&#8217;ve mentioned suggests any sort of coordination. It suggests haste. If this is getting things done as quickly as possible, I don&#8217;t want to think what getting things done slowly is in New York.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/07/29/inside-the-wtc-calatrava-transit-hub/#comment-88068</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 07:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondavenuesagas.com/?p=6547#comment-88068</guid>
		<description>Often, the starchitects spend a lot of effort convincing the public and the planners that their multibillion dollar projects are important for the community. It&#039;s not just the government that wastes money; usually the people it wastes money on help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Often, the starchitects spend a lot of effort convincing the public and the planners that their multibillion dollar projects are important for the community. It&#8217;s not just the government that wastes money; usually the people it wastes money on help.</p>
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