ADI, the tunnel-boring machine hard at work digging out the Second Ave. Subway, is just 82 feet away from completing the western tunnel, the MTA announced late on Friday. Once it reaches its end point, crews will disassemble the 485-ton, 450-foot long machine, pull it back to 92nd St. and begin its run through the eastern tunnel. The authority says that Phase 1 of the Second Ave. Subway remains on pace for a December 2016 opening date.
While this is but a small milestone on the path toward SAS completion, it’s a key one. The MTA now has one full-length tunnel from 96th St. to 63rd St. Barring an unforeseen happening, the city will finally, after what will be nearly 90 years, get part of a Second Ave. Subway later in the decade. For more, check out this brief release from the MTA.
Photo of the TBM awaiting launch by Benjamin Kabak.
41 comments
Curious why they don’t just dig a u-shaped tunnel to save disassembly and reassembly, which I’m sure is quite the effort.
I’m sure this thing has a pretty unacceptable turn radius!
In fact, I’m pretty sure it’s turning radius is “does not turn.” You can’t form a U with a 450-foot TBM in the amount of space separating the western and eastern SAS tunnels.
Exactly, unless you want to run the n/b tunnel up first avenue.
Actually, the TBM can turn–one side of the machine exerts more thrust than the other side. However it has a very wide radius due to the size of the TBM components. The turning radius is wider than a subway car and due to the tight radius of the west tunnel, ADI was not able to make it all the way to 63rd street. TBM Drive #1 ended somewhere in the mid-60’s with the remaining few blocks of tunnel section to be blasted out by the contractor doing the 72nd Street cavern. TBM Drive number #2 (the east tunnel) has a wider turning radius and the TBM will make it to 63rd Street on that drive.
Over at The Launch Box there are some photos from the TBM mining. They’re very impressive.
I knew I’d get a good answer! Thanks, everyone.
Keep going!
It’s too bad the utilities aren’t already moved further south…
AMEN!
They should drive it all the way to Houston St. at least.
For those of us who no confidence whatsoever in the promises of New York politicians, the end of the western run is very good news.
The same useless crowd diverting money from dedicated transit funding to issues more important to them, like marijuana-law enforcement and prison-filling, would stop construction spending if they thought that the voters would stand for it. Finishing one of the tunnels makes it harder to convince the public that the work should stop now.
This is great news! I can’t wait for this line to open. I just wish the entire line could get built as quickly as possible. Any idea how long it will take for this entire line to be built? I would like to at least see phase 2 done soon after phase 1. By the way, I know the line is being built to allow future extensions into Brooklyn and the Bronx. If those extensions are done, would it replace the C in Brooklyn (connecting via Court Street) and the B in the Bronx?
Ignoring the construction costs, would those even be desirable replacements? I would guess not. And what would happen with the Manhattan C and the Brooklyn/Manhattan B?
Why does it have to go to Court St in BK? The last stop in Phase 4 is Hanover Sq. A few hundred more feet and it could tap into the the Montegue St. Tunnel the R (and previously the M too) use to get into Brooklyn. By my reckoning, that tunnel is under utilized now and running a new Brooklyn service into the Second Avenue line would be more useful than the M rush-hour service was as it hits downtown and midtown. The M only was useful for downtown passengers.
Speaking of downtown T service (if it ever happens, why no Fulton St stop (and passageway)? Or will Hanover Sq be close enough to the 2/3 Wall St. station a passageway could be punched through?
The “Seaport” stop is at or near Fulton Street.
There will be a stop called Seaport, which will be at Fulton St.
Why not just call it Fulton St?
Hmm, AFAICT there’s no perfect way for the T to replace any 8th Ave. service that runs on the trunk under Fulton, though if the C isn’t too busy maybe the T could complement that. The C is complemented between WTC and 59th by the E, but is the only local 8th Ave.-only service both respectively south and north of those points, so it’s probably desirable to keep it around. Going off the top of my head, services are a bit thin anyway on the 8th Ave. trunk lines.
Maybe it wouldn’t be too big a deal to make the A/C both local in Brooklyn and run the T express in Brooklyn place of the A – but keeping the A express in Manhattan, allowing A/C-T transfers across platform at Hoyt. The A/C already share track between Fulton (in Manhattan) and Hoyt anyway, so I guess the throughput capacity is there. Hell, maybe it would resolve the A’s rather ridiculous multi-terminal setup.
I still think it makes better (and more cost-effective) service expansion to tap into the Montegue St Tubes and use the T to supplement R service on Fourth Avenue and D service on the West End line down to Bay Parkway. Only a small amount of tunnel would need to be dug to do that. The tube already lost M trains, it has capacity
Bigger question is how and where to the Bronx.
Hmm, maybe some capacity, but perhaps not so much. The (empty-ish) M Train was already interfering with the rather busy R Train, IIRC. Besides, the R services the east side fairly well as is. That was a service pattern that possibly should have been eliminated when Ford was telling the city to drop dead. It would be better to serve somewhere that might have demand for east side service (well, at least anything below ~23rd overlaps with the western half o the Lex’s service area), but little access – Fulton might not be the worst candidate in that regard, or a new ROW.
Several years ago, the Pelham Line was discussed as a good option to convert for division B service. I don’t know what the best thing to do with the 6 would be, then.
Anyway, I’m not sure how much more interlining should be encouraged, particularly not without a 4-track trunk on the SAS. It’s easier to prevent service problems from cascading across lines without interlining.
In midtown, the R doesn’t serve the East Side at all. And downtown, it also runs pretty far west. If the T were extended through Montague Street, I think it would be a lot more popular than the M was.
Of course, I’m assuming that ridership on that corridor in Brooklyn grows to the point that more than the R is needed. Right now, the R is enough.
T is going to be frequent. It’s not exactly a good candidate to run where the R does.
The track sharing on the A and C from Chambers to Jay limits capacity on the A, and harms reliability. If Court St were linked to 2nd Ave for the T to take over Fulton St local, all 8th Ave locals could terminate at World Trade Center, and much more 8th Ave/Fulton express service could run (which would help ameliorate the low frequency at the multiple A terminals).
This isn’t necessarily the best place to send the T of the options available, but that would be the rationale. (Other reasonable options include taking over Atlantic Ave LIRR, merging into the Montague St tunnel, and Staten Island.)
But then the Fulton local wouldn’t have service to 8th Ave anymore, and getting to 6th ave would require two transfers. I don’t think that would go over well.
And I highly doubt the WTC terminal could handle both the C and the E. There isn’t room for much more A service in any case, due to the merge with the D train uptown. If the T were to take over the Fulton local (which I’m still not advocating), perhaps the A and C should continue to run at their current frequencies through Manhattan and into Brooklyn, with the C staying on the express track in Queens, taking over one of the branches (Lefferts?).
Steve, are you sure the line is built to allow future extensions to Brooklyn and the Bronx? I’ve seen the MTA indicate nothing of the sort. The tracks and connections allow a westward extension on 125th, and through-service from Queens to the lower half of SAS through 63rd Street. The RPA occasionally proposes SAS to be extended to an Atlantic Avenue subway, but the MTA has never mentioned it that I know of.
The south end of Phase 4 is pointed right at Brooklyn. It could be extended later if desired.
The north end of Phase 2 has a northward branch, purportedly for storage tracks, but clearly pointing directly at the Bronx.
Thanks. I didn’t remember if there actually was a northward branch in Phase 2. But do you know if this branch is deep enough for trains to be able to dive under the river?
From page 2-14 of the FEIS:
I don’t know. I just asked because I had heard that was a potential plan for the future.
It’s certainly not in any of the four official phases, and I’ve never seen it even proposed as a fifth phase.
It’s not in the four phases. After the four phases are completed, the plans allow for future expansion to Brooklyn (likely via Court Street) and the Bronx.
Court Street being the current Transit Museum.
Yeah, I could see the point of it going through the Montague street tunnel. Like you two mentioned, that line is underutilized without the M and it would definitely be more successful. While I enjoyed the extra service the M provided, it was almost always never crowded. The T would definitely be in more demand. I still kind of hope that the Court Street station will see some kind of regular service one day, though.
You think they’d ever consider re-routing the C through the Court Street station to link up with the T?
Why do they have only 1 TBM?
No wonder it will take 80 years to complete. They could have easily continued boring south working on the longest stretch of this project.
Has anyone thought of using the TBM from the east side project & 7 Line Extension to help assist with the TBM for 2nd avenue?
Are we using just 1 TBM for this whole project?
Now if thats the case, then I can believe why it will take 80 years to finish the 2nd avenue line.
This might be off the topic so forgive me if it is. What happens to the Bleeker St crews, Jay St Metrotech Crews, East Side Project crews when they are done? Will they go bolster the 2nd avenue crews? Possible make this tunnel project go faster?
I ask that because I dont see any major subway construction going on immediately after 2nd Avenue.
Im just trying to figure out if this project will really take 80 years. I just find that so unnacceptable. It angers me as an american when I see all these other nations building in 10 years subway lines and it takes us that long. I know the common arguments why it will, like NYC is an old city with alot of infrastructure. I get that. It shouldnt take 80, maybe 20 years for that factor.
It’s not literally taking 80 years to build this stretch of subway. Rather, the Second Ave. Subway has been proposed and on the drawing board for 80 years, but due to wars, politics, the ups and downs of the city’s economy and numerous other factors, nothing has happened until now.
Pete,
From what I understand, the TBMs can chew through solid rock wonderfully well, but they are actually very picky eaters. Land in many low-lying parts of Manhattan is former swamp, mushy, while the TBMs want it al dente. So depending on the subsoil conditions, the TBMs just won’t work. They won’t be used at all in Phase 2 thru East Harlem. (There’s a diagram around showing how each section will be built by TBM, mined, or cut-and-cover method)
As for the 80 year thing, some visionaries in the 1920s planned a new line to link the Bronx to Brooklyn with a stem along 2nd Ave. The 20s ended really badly, with the Stock Market Crash followed by the Great Depression, then World War II, and by the prosperous 50s the automobile was king.
In the 60s Mayor John Lindsay led an effort to actually start digging on 2nd Ave, and work began at several sites. (The work downtown remains totally useless and buried; a larger effort in East Harlem gets you going on Phase 2.)
Nowadays some politicians still talk about a full Second Avenue Subway as if we might see it in your lifetime. Probably not. Unless and until NY figures out how to build subways for less than some billions per mile, nobody is gonna pay for it.
We’re lucky to be getting Phase 1 and will be really lucky to get Phase 2 up to MetroNorth at 125th Street.
If you’re really interested in this stuff, this site has a lot of back story and great links. Start by browsing the Categories listed to the right of these Comments.
Hmm, isn’t there a “river” under 125th, come to think of it?
The stream flowed where Lenox Ave was built, making it one heck of a place to put a subway line. So, yes, it will be a bit of a mess to extend [a branch of?] the 2nd Avenue line across 125 Street, diving under the Lexington and Lenox Ave lines.
Woody, I am more optimistic. I say we’ll get phase 2 by the end of the decade, as most of the work has already been done (though I really question the cost of a 5 block TBM drive btw 120 and 125, when cut and cover is being used for th
Phase 3 hopefully at least started by 2025, depending on whether they are serious about this 7 extension alternative to the ARC and how much strain east side access places on the east side IRT lines. It’s my hope that the strain put on by east side access is the driver behind phase 3, as only once that is completed will it actually be a usable line
Thank you for answering woody. I lurk this site alot.
Each TBM can be customized for its enviroment. They can be refitted for the new job. I dont see why it has to be 1 TBM Boring one phase. They should get another TBM to bore south while that phase 1 TBM works on the north.
Is the primary issue money and lack of leadership? What is stopping this project from working on phase 3 while 1 and 2 are being worked on to the north? Theres more then enough workers that will be available when East Side Access and 7 Extension are near completion.
[…] yesterday I reported that the tunnel-boring machine was approaching the end of its western run, and today, the MTA announced that ADI, the TBM digging out the long-awaited Second Ave. Subway, […]
Brooklyn T service would be hardly duplicative of any existing service and as it was pointedout the R doesn’t serve all of the east side very well and the M wasn’t much use for non-downtown destinations. With the Q interlined at the north and the R in the south, the second ave line effectively represents an expansion of BMT service in manhattan (decades after this ceased to be an independent entity)