Sandy shutdowns loom in 2015; weekend work on 13 lines

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20 responses to “Sandy shutdowns loom in 2015; weekend work on 13 lines”

1. November 22, 2014

   Duke

   40 Weekends. Ick. Can’t they just pick 11 straight weeks to shut it down and get it over with?

   Although I suppose the service diversions necessary to make that work would get too cumbersome and confusing. It’s not like with the R where they could just terminate it on eiter side without changing anything else.

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   1. November 22, 2014

      Eric Brasure

      I imagine they’re concerned about everyone switching to the F at Jay St.

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   2. November 22, 2014

      Tower18

      Split service isn’t practical on the A/C, and there’s not enough room in the Rutgers tunnel to send the A/C via Rutgers during rush hour (there’s also a rush-hour concern with the W4th switches). This weekend reroute is really the only option.

      And, the good thing is, it’s not even that painful.

      Customers from Brooklyn wanting lower Manhattan A stations can just switch to the R at Jay St, as the R parallels the A/C for most of Lower Manhattan. Customers Uptown wanting the reverse can change for either the E to Chambers or the 1/2/3.

      The only problem is Spring St, because they usually do the E express to Canal when the W4th switches are in use. So that leaves Spring St with no service whenever this is in effect. It’s not the worst situation, as the 1 at Houston isn’t far away, and frankly neither is Canal or W4th.

      For everyone else to/from Brooklyn, it’s just a different set of intermediate stations to pass through, nothing changes.

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2. November 22, 2014

   Stan

   The A C Tunnel closure should be combined with the F train tunnel closure as follows:

   21 weekends of Manhattan-bound A C F trains operating via the F tunnel and Brooklyn-bound A C F trains operating via the A C tunnel and 21 weekends of the service pattern reversed (Manhattan-bound A C F via A C Tunnel and Brooklyn-bound trains via Delancey St and F tunnel)

   A Full Shutdown of the F train tunnel would also be possible, with the following changes in service:
   A – Trains operate between 207 St and Far Rockaway or Lefferts Blvd, with rush hour service to/from Rockaway Park (depending on whether its AM or PM Rush), with the following change:
   A trains that operate to/from Lefferts Blvd run LOCAL in Brooklyn

   C – Trains operate only between 168 St and W4 St, then via the F line to/from Delancey St-Essex St (or East Broadway if possible). NO C train service in Brooklyn or direct service to Brooklyn from 2 Av, Delancey St/Essex St, or East Broadway F train Stations.

   F – Trains operate between Jamaica-179 St and Stillwell Av, with train service rerouted via the A/C line between West 4 St and Jay St-MetroTech in both directions

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   1. November 22, 2014

      pete

      In a couple GOs I’ve seen F was sent to Far Rockaway and/or Lefferts and G was extended to CI, transfer at Hoyt-Schemerhorn. I dont remember which tunnel the F was using at the time.

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      1. November 23, 2014

         Tower18

         It’s usually F to Euclid I think, no C, and G to Coney Island.

         The purpose of that was Jay St renovation, I believe, and Bergen St interlocking work.

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3. November 22, 2014

   pete

   Ben appears in this fresh clip http://www.nbcnewyork.com/temp…..&lp=1

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4. November 22, 2014

   Nathanael

   “The worse news concerns Sandy-related shutdowns. For 40 weekends next year — non-consecutive at least — the A and C trains will not run through the Cranberry St. Tunnel as the MTA works through repairs. The trains will run via the F between West 4th and Jay St., and we’ll see how the rest of the service plans shape up.”

   If I’m not mistaken, the A ( and C ) will have to run local all the way from 59th St. south, as that’s the last opportunity to cross over from the express tracks to the local tracks.

   Capacity concerns mean they’ll then probably want to switch the E over to the express tracks. Which means bypassing Spring St.

   The removal of all service to the A/C at Fulton St., and service to High St. in Brooklyn, will be annoying. There are alternatives; people at High St. can hike over to York St., people at Fulton St. can hike over to WTC.

   I begin to suspect that the MTA is doing the Sandy repairs from easiest to hardest. Apparently after the A/C Cranberry St. Tunnels, the next on the agenda is the E/M 53rd St. tunnels, which offer relatively easy weekend reroutes because of the 63rd St. tunnels. (As well as the 60th St. tunnels.)

   After that, however, it gets worse. None of the others are truly rerouteable (due to lack of connections on the Manhattan side) so they will all require split service.

   Closing the Jorelemon St. tunnels on the 4/5 could theoretically be done with trains from the south reversing at Borough Hall, but is more likely to be done with trains reversing at Atlantic Avenue. Trains from the north could reverse at South Ferry. (But might reverse at City Hall if the partially-flooded tunnels between there and South Ferry also need work.) No station service would be lost. In order to keep connections working, however, you’d have to seriously beef up service through the Montague St. (R) tunnels. Possibly reinstate service on the J through those tunnels, or make a Metrocard free connection from Bowling Green to Whitehall St.

   Closing the Clark St. tunnels on the 2/3 would (due to the location of the nearest crossovers) drop 2/3 service to Park Place, Fulton St., Wall St., Clark St., Borough Hall, Hoyt St., and Nevins St. Ouch. At least connections could be made at Atlantic Ave & South Ferry.

   The Steinway tunnels on the #7 will require shutdown with no reroute available — and presumably will shut down the entire Manhattan line due to lack of access to the storage & maintenance yards. At least alternative service is available for most of this (the G, the shuttle), though I don’t see good options for Vernon Blvd / Jackson Av, and this will shut down the Javits Center extension shortly after it opens.

   The 14th St. tunnels on the L will also require shutdown with no reroute, and there’s really no reasonable alternative; it’ll be like the G shutdown only more so. Lots of 14th St. buses?

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   1. November 22, 2014

      Nathanael

      (Well, I forgot the F. Obviously that has many options for rerouting. But anyway, it’s the L and the IRT lines which are really problematic.)

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      1. November 23, 2014

         Dan

         I assume the MTA would run shuttle buses between the Long Island City stops and Queensboro Plaza as it always does now when the Steinway Tunnels are shut down for CBTC-related work.

         That provides a connection to the E, N (Q has normally also been extended to Astoria until about 8 PM) and possibly the R (if the buses stop at Queens Plaza too).

         For a weekend L shutdown, yeah, probably 14th Street busses and encouraging riders to ride the M to the F at Essex/Delancey to get between Williamsburg and Manhattan.

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         1. November 23, 2014

            Sunny

            The last couple times the L shut down, they would extend the M to 57 St.

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   2. November 23, 2014

      Brooklynite

      The 2/3 tunnels have a crossover directly south of Wall Street. Theoretically, one pocket south of the station could be left open for trains to relay there while work progresses further down the tunnel. This would allow transfers at Fulton to the 4/5. (Although the 2 could just run to South Ferry for the R train connection.)

      The Joralemon closure would simply have the 4/5 suspended in Brooklyn, replaced by the 2/3. The Fulton St transfer comes in handy here as well. Although, considering the fact that the 4/5 tunnel did not suffer water damage during the storm (its pumps continued operating throughout), it is unclear whether such a closure is necessary.

      The 7 is currently having its Sandy damage repaired, concurrently with the CBTC work.

      The A/C closures are fairly straightforward – High St is closed because of proximity to York St and Fulton St is accessible via the J from Delancey (24/7 service to Broad starts next year).

      The Rutgers St closure is a tad more complex because of the A/C/E/F interacting at Canal St. The C could go express south of 59 St though, minimising conflicts. One thing that is not clear is whether there will be a shuttle from West 4th to East Broadway.

      The L is the most complex – there are very few alternatives nearby. The simplest I can come up with would be a shuttle bus to the J/M, along with the M going to 57/6. Although the shuttle would be less than a 10-minute ride, it would still be very inconvenient and longer-term closures (for example, for Thanksgiving or during Christmas week) would be much more efficient.

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      1. November 23, 2014

         sonicboy678

         Apparently, there’s an issue with the R142s which prohibits them from utilizing short platforms. From what I’ve heard, these cars are incapable of opening a selection of doors on one side as opposed to all; in other words, the 2 can only serve South Ferry once the newer platform is reopened.

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         1. November 24, 2014

            Simon

            That explains why the 2 has been bypassing South Ferry during the night and weekend reroutes.

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            1. November 24, 2014

               Brooklynite

               There is in fact no technical reason why the 2 cannot stop at South Ferry Loop.
               (Proof: http://subwaynut.com/irt/south….._loop5.jpg)

               The reason is in fact one of pure liability. Apparently, at one point a CR on the 2 opened all 10 cars at South Ferry, so now the 2 does not stop there. Utterly stupid, yes, but it is what it is.

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               1. November 24, 2014

                  Brooklynite

                  Here’s a better image:

                  http://subwaynut.com/irt/south….._loop6.jpg

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   3. November 24, 2014

      Tower18

      I begin to suspect that the MTA is doing the Sandy repairs from easiest to hardest.

      I think that’s probably correct. Imagine the situation they’re likely trying to avoid: starting with something like 2/3 closure, and in the middle of that work, there’s some catastrophic failure in the Montague Tunnel. They need the almost-empty Montague for these rerouting passengers…can’t take them all on the 4/5 (or vice versa for a Joralemon closure). And for that to happen, Montague had to be fixed first so that it could be counted on during the other reroutes.

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5. November 23, 2014

   Larry Littlefield

   I’m not so worried about the A/C shutdown on weekend. Why? There is now a transfer to the R for those going to Lower Manhattan. That shows the value of flexibility.

   So what is the alternative on the Upper East Side for those living or working there?

   They need the next phase of the SAS, with the connection at 125th Street.

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6. November 23, 2014

   Phantom

   The Jay St A/C/F/R connection was one of the best bang for the buck projects in our lifetime.

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   1. November 23, 2014

      sonicboy678

      That was definitely a smart move, especially during Montague’s closure.

      Reply