Weekend work affecting 15 subway lines

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19 responses to “Weekend work affecting 15 subway lines”

1. February 7, 2015

   MaximusNYC

   Also: This is another weekend that the Manhattan-bound side of the the Ditmas Ave. F station is closed. Which is a big headache for me personally.

   I don’t know why these individual station closures don’t make it into the MTA’s service advisory lists — if it’s your station, it’s pretty important to know about.

   Reply
   1. February 7, 2015

      Jerrold

      ALSO, another MTA informational screw-up this weekend:
      The E-mails that I receive routinely every Thursday said nothing about any F train changes in Brooklyn; only in Manhattan and Queens. Yet, some friends of mine in Brooklyn called me earlier today to tell me about how the F was running express stops only in the Coney Island-bound direction.

      I then went to the MTA website, and sure enough, that service change was mentioned THERE. So why couldn’t they have included it in the Thursday E-mails?

      Reply
      1. February 9, 2015

         Andrew

         This is the F email I got on Thursday:

         11:45 PM Fri to 5 AM Mon, Feb 6 – 9
         Jamaica-bound F trains skip 75 Av, Van Wyck Blvd, and Sutphin Blvd.

         9:45 PM Fri to 5 AM Mon, Feb 6 – 9
         Jamaica-bound F trains are rerouted via the M from 47-50 Sts to Roosevelt Av.
         • Trains run express from Queens Plaza to Roosevelt Av.
         • To 57 St, take the Jamaica-bound F to the nearby 5 Av/53 St station. Or, transfer at 34 St-Herald Sq to an uptown N, Q, or R for service to nearby 57 St-7 Av.
         • To Lexington Av/63 St, take the Jamaica-bound F to Lexington Av/53 St and transfer to an uptown 4 or 6 to the nearby 59 St station.
         • To Roosevelt Island and 21 St-Queensbridge, take the Jamaica-bound F to Roosevelt Av and transfer to a Coney Island-bound F.
         • From these stations, take a Coney Island-bound F to 47-50 Sts and transfer to a Jamaica-bound F.

         This service change affects one or more ADA accessible stations. Please call 511 for help with planning your trip. If you are deaf or hard of hearing, use your preferred relay service provider or the free 711 relay. For more information, click on the mta.info link in this email and read station signs.

         12:01 AM Sat to 5 AM Mon, Feb 7 – 9
         Coney Island-bound F trains run local from 71 Av to Roosevelt Av.

         11:45 PM Fri to 5 AM Mon, Feb 6 – 9
         Coney Island-bound F trains run express from Smith-9 Sts to Neptune Av.

         Yours was different? Brooklyn’s at the bottom of mine.

         Reply
   2. February 8, 2015

      Andrew

      This is another weekend that the Manhattan-bound side of the the Ditmas Ave. F station is closed.

      That’s funny – I was on a northbound F earlier today that stopped there, picked people up, dropped people off.

      I don’t know why these individual station closures don’t make it into the MTA’s service advisory lists — if it’s your station, it’s pretty important to know about.

      When they happen, they do make it into the lists.

      When they don’t happen, such as this weekend, they don’t make it into the lists.

      Stepping back from the snark, I’m curious what gave you the idea that the platform was closed when it was actually open. Only the southbound platform was closed – all southbound trains were running express.

      Reply
2. February 7, 2015

   Brooklynite

   Just like last weekend, L trains are running a 10-minute headway, with extremely crowded trains as a result. Why can’t MTA manage a turnaround shorter than 5 minutes at Union Square? (Today, the L train I saw arrive left five minutes later. That’s sad.)

   Reply
   1. February 7, 2015

      alek

      Possibility Union Square cannot handle that many trains running along.

      Reply
      1. February 8, 2015

         Brooklynite

         Shorter dwell at Union Square would, by definition, result in a better frequency. Union Square cannot handle a two-minute frequency perhaps, but every five-six minutes, sure.

         Reply
   2. February 8, 2015

      sonicboy678

      Unless you’re willing to back trains into the tunnels west of the station, which may interfere with work, you won’t get better turnaround. Honestly, Canarsie is barely able to handle the crowds and train frequencies much of the time. Combine this with the least stable CBTC installment I’ve ever heard and it’s a recipe for disaster.

      Reply
      1. February 8, 2015

         Brooklynite

         Why would trains need to go west of the station? How about the train simply leaving a minute after it arrives? Have the outgoing T/O on the platform when the incoming train is arriving and the turnaround can be reduced, increasing frequency.

         Think of it this way: the minimum headway is (2*travel time from switch to Union Sq) + (dwell at Union Sq) + (switch alignment / delay recovery time). It’s clear that reducing dwell increases frequency. To add numbers, the travel time from Union Sq to 3 Av is listed as 1 minute in each direction. Adding a minute for recovery, and having a two-minute dwell, gives a train every 5 minutes. If the train sits at Union Square for 5-6 minutes, that gets close to 10 minutes between trains, which is unacceptable for the L.

         Reply
         1. February 8, 2015

            sonicboy678

            Additional storage, especially if there are gaps which must be filled.

            Of course, if there’s any single-track operations anywhere, you won’t be able to effectively squeeze out more than 6 TPH.

            Reply
         2. February 8, 2015

            sonicboy678

            Also, good luck getting the train to depart the minute after it arrives to head in the opposite direction.

            Reply
            1. February 8, 2015

               Brooklynite

               When I was at Union Square, the barrier across the tracks was just west of the station. The Brooklyn-bound track had work trains on it. So storage is a moot point.

               Regarding single-track operations, it’s actually pretty trivial to have trains turn around in a short amount of time. Once the train arrives, say it takes five seconds for the doors to open (generous) and thirty seconds for the T/O* to sit down and start charging up the train** (again generous). If the train takes twenty seconds to charge and the doors take an additional five seconds to close, that’s exactly sixty seconds.

               *The T/O would need to be waiting at the other end of the platform as the train was pulling in. In London, this is called stepping back. In Soviet metros, this is such an everyday aspect of operation that I don’t think it even has a name.

               **The T/O must charge up the train after an emergency brake application, which is required when the train changes directions. Charging up entails letting air into the brake pipe, among other things.

               Reply
               1. February 8, 2015

                  Andrew

                  Your assumptions are way off. It takes longer than five seconds for the doors to open at a terminal, since the conductor has to switch cabs before opening the doors. As the crowd on the train is getting off, the new train operator isn’t going to be able to force his way on and into the cab within 30 seconds. It takes much more than 20 seconds to charge the brakes. And even in the highly unlikely event that nobody holds the doors in all, it takes longer than five seconds for the conductor to close first the rear section and then the front section.

                  (Dropping back, as it’s called here, is commonplace in New York, far moreso than in London.)

                  Under absolutely ideal circumstances, the dwell might be manageable at three minutes or so. Of course, if you schedule for ideal circumstances, then the schedule breaks down if even the slightest thing goes wrong.

                  And, perhaps this is different with CBTC, but typical NYCT operating practices require slow operation across switches and while wrong-railing.

                  Reply
                  1. February 9, 2015

                     Brooklynite

                     You’re right, some of my numbers were inexact. Allow me to correct them.

                     After a train arrives at a terminal, it takes at most 8 seconds to open the doors. [1]
                     After a train’s e-brakes are applied and it comes to a halt, it takes at most 27 seconds for it to move again. [2]

                     That said, it really should not take more than 30 seconds for a T/O to get into his cab and begin charging the train. Even allowing ten seconds for the crowds to exit, it can’t take more than 20 seconds to walk three feet, unlock a door, and walk through it.

                     Also, as far as I know uncharged brakes do not preclude closing train doors, so it is perfectly feasible for the C/R to start closing the doors before the train has fully charged. Thus, we should not consider door-closing time as a separate item, except where dwell time would be insufficient for passenger (de)boarding.

                     All in all, that leaves:
                     -train arrives
                     -8 sec to open doors
                     -30 sec for T/O to start charging train
                     -27 sec for train to be move-able, during which time C/R can close the doors
                     -train leaves
                     …giving a total of 65 seconds, which includes 45+ seconds of dwell time (more than enough).

                     So we have 65 second dwell.
                     Take a travel time of 47 seconds from 3 Av to Union Square. [3]
                     Let’s be generous and double that, to 94 seconds, for the reverse trip, to account for slow speeds because of the switch.
                     That gives 65+47+94=206 second interval at bare minimum. That said, 94 seconds is more than enough for throwing a switch and recovery time to allow for delays. Why can’t MTA manage the regularly scheduled 300-second headway, or even a 360-second interval?

                     [1]
                     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUK0vaA0MKQ
                     Train stops 3:34, doors open 3:42

                     [2]
                     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVCa_po57ig
                     Train stops 2:50, train starts moving 3:17

                     [3]
                     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elMiMb_mosA
                     Doors close 27:49, doors open 28:36

                     P.S. If anyone reading this works for MTA or otherwise has concrete numbers disproving something I said here, I’d be glad to learn. But saying “it won’t work because it won’t” should not be an excuse. (It certainly wasn’t for the Japanese, who converted an above-ground line to a subway portal IN FOUR HOURS. http://en.rocketnews24.com/201…..-of-hours/ )

                     Reply
                  2. February 9, 2015

                     Brooklynite

                     My original reply appears to have triggered the spam filter or something, so I’ll sum it up.

                     Based on Youtube videos, I have more precise numbers:
                     -at most 8 seconds for doors to open at a terminal
                     -at most 27 seconds for train to move after EB application
                     -47 seconds between doors closing at 3 Av and opening at Union Square

                     We should also take into account that the doors can be closing while the train is charging.

                     About the T/O, how long can it possibly take to walk three feet and unlock a door? 30 seconds is more than enough, even taking crowds into account.

                     That said, we have a dwell time of 8 + 30 + 27 = 65 seconds. (Assuming doors close before the train is fully charged)

                     Travel time 3 Av>USQ is 47 seconds. Let’s double that to 94 seconds for the return trip to be very generous regarding slow speed across switches, etc.

                     That gives an absolute minimum headway of 47+65+94=206 seconds. 94 seconds is more than enough to compensate for delays, and to allow switch movements and the like. Therefore, there is no reason a 300-second headway cannot be run.

                     P.S. If anyone here works for MTA or otherwise has concrete numbers proving anything I said above wrong, please share. However, simply stating “it won’t work because it won’t” should not be an excuse. It certainly wasn’t for the Japanese for instance, who converted an above-ground line to a subway portal in four hours. (!)

                     Reply
                     1. February 9, 2015

                        adirondacker12800

                        It takes time for the signal system to confirm that the switch is clear. It takes time to move the switch from one configuration to another. And then confirm it’s in that configuration. Yes this can be going on while the train is emptying out and filling up. It takes time. When they are single tracking it can take a lot longer.

                        Reply
                        1. February 10, 2015

                           Brooklynite

                           Switch movements while the train is at Union Square will take much less than the dwell time there. Switch movements to allow the next train at 3 Av to proceed are part of the 94-second difference between minimum possible headway (206 s) and actual headway (300 s).

                           Reply
3. February 8, 2015

   JJJJ

   RE: What to do in snow emergencies

   MBTA is providing an excellent case example that MTA should look at

   For storm 1, MBTA did what MTA did: Close for the day, complete travel ban (NYC got like 5 inches, Boston got advertised 3 feet)

   For storm 2, MBTA did nothing. Every rail line failed, with trains stuck, riders trapped, and many, many cancellations. Complete disaster (2 or so feet of snow)

   For storm 3 (tomorrow, projected 2 feet snow), MBTA is trying something new: Low levels of service, and no service on some lines during midday. In reality, theyre codifying the disaster from storm 2, when the GM announced that 50% of rail vehicles broke down due to snow and cold
   http://www.mbta.com/winter/

   Reply
   1. February 10, 2015

      Michael

      Just following up that the MBTA had to shut down on Tuesday (sunny after the storm) as a result of trying to run trains on a limited basis during the storm. Why the systems can’t run trains on a limited basis on the underground track portion I cannot comprehend.

      Reply