Aug
03

Amidst record ridership, some thoughts on PATH

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The 1909 plans from the Hudson & Manhattan Railroad Compay would have seen trains reach Grand Central. (Photo via Penn Station Maps Library)

Every few weeks, I have to take a reverse commute on the PATH trains from the World Trade Center out to Jersey City. It’s a quick ride on a smooth and clean system, and I’m always floored by the rush of people leaving the station in Lower Manhattan. It can be tough to fight against the crowds flocking to work in the morning and for good reason too as PATH has announced record ridership for the first half of 2012.

From January 1 through June 30, PATH ridership was up four percent over the record levels set in 2011. Ridership during that time exceed 39 million, and the interstate subway is on pace to see an increase of eight percent over 2009. That’s some rapid growth in the face of over $1 billion of investment in rolling stock, the signal system and station modernizations.

“The PATH rail system is a critical component of the Port Authority’s interstate transportation network, and we have invested more than $1 billion to modernize PATH’s stations, trains and signal system to make sure it remains a preferred mode of travel between New Jersey and New York,” Port Authority Chairman David Samson said. “This continued record growth in ridership confirms our investment is working to attract millions of additional riders.”

According to PATH, those stations with the largest percentages of growth were Harrison and Christopher Street, with each topping a 10 percent jump. Even as 56 percent of all riders entered in the system’s New Jersey stations, 23rd St., 9th St. and the World Trade Center all saw growths of over five percent. Grove Street too enjoyed a 5.7 percent jump in ridership. Overall, ridership in New York City rose by five percent while ridership in New Jersey went up by three percent.

In the coming years, the Port Authority is working to accommodate 10-car trains on the WTC-to-Newark route and will improve the signal system to allow for more frequent service. And yet I want more. PATH has become an integral part of the commute from New Jersey to Manhattan, and it’s a system that should be better integrated into New York’s own interborough subway. Riders can use only pay-per-ride Metrocards on PATH, and transfers between the two systems are clunky.

Once upon a time, the Hudson & Manhattan Railroad Company had plans to expand their tunnels east from 9th Street to Astor Place and north from 33rd St. to Grand Central. Those stations and that routing never saw the light of day, and PATH, on the New York City side, has remained stagnant for decades. For now, it can extend its tentacles further afield into New Jersey as an expensive new station arises at the World Trade Center site. Maybe we should dream bigger with PATH.



Categories : PANYNJ

53 Responses to “Amidst record ridership, some thoughts on PATH”

  1. Michael says:

    When the Path was built they considered to connecting it to the Lexington line.

    I think its a shame with the rebuilding of the WTC that the PATH and MTA didn’t take the opportunity to connect the Path and the 6 line. The new WTC station could then have had a pass through station and turnaround platforms for the Path and 6 trains.

    Combined with a transfer at Fulton street, this could have really increased the utility of NYC’s transit system. A combined Path/6 train could provide NJ riders a direct line to Grand Central and Metro North. NYC riders would benefit by having a 6 train that had more transfers downtown without having to switch to a 4 or 5 train as well as WTC, and NJ. Allowing 6 train transfers to the A and C train and PATH at Fulton would probably alleviate some of the massive crowding on the 4, 5 Northbound platform. Im sure some of these people are just trying to get to the 6 train.

    Path planning to expand the WTC to Newark stations to allow 10 car trains would even allow 6 trains to go to Newark if that short connection was built.

    • John-2 says:

      If you did a 3-D underground schematic of the area between the PATH WTC station at Fulton and Greenwich streets and the 6 train’s loop under City Hall Park, connecting the two would really be a thread-the-needle project. The connector tunnel would have to bore under the A/C tracks and the N/R tracks at Church and Vescey streets, then get past the 2/3 tunnel crossing from Park Place to Beekman Street under City Hall Park while rising in underground elevation enough to hook into the 6 loop just north of there under the park (which might require destroying part of the abandoned City Hall station).

      It might be possible, but it would be costly (other than the original at-grade option at Ninth St. to hook up with the 6, the other possibility would be to branch a line off PATH at a 90 degree angle at Sheridan Square and send it along West Fourth Street, through the center mezzanine at at the IND West Fourth stop on Sixth Avenue and then along the south side of Washington Square Park to connect up with the 6 at Lafayette Street, connecting between Astor Place and Bleecker. You’d have to split the 6 into one route going to Jersey and one to B’klyn Bridge, but a stop at Sixth Avenue would keep the pending full transfer between the Lex local and the IND, and it would be easier to tunnel past the existing lines, since the 1/2/3, the N/R and the 4/5/6 are all just one level below ground at Fourth Street).

      • al says:

        There is also the issue with rolling stock. The PATH has 650V DC vs 625V DC on NYCTA. If you combine the Pelham Line with Newark WTC, you need to get a railcar that will work with the structure gauge on both sections. The truck centers are closer on PATH than IRT and they also have wider car bodies too. The Union Sq gap fillers and clearance for switches might be problematic too.

        Train frequency is also an issue as half of the trains coming into WTC are from Newark. You would need to extend the platforms at Hoboken and Exchange Pl too. There might be an issue with top of rail to platform height as well.

        At the time the MTA was also building out the R142 fleet. This might had been a reason they didn’t go for building out the link.

        • John-2 says:

          If by miracles of miracles, the MTA and PA were able to work things out, they might be able to come up with a rail car that combined the width of an IRT car, the truck placement of a PATH car and one which could negotiate the voltage differences, though I don’t know even then if a local train from Pelham Bay Park or even Parkchster all the way to Newark would be practical on a crew scheduling basis (Journal Square to Parkchester might be more do-able, but my guess is we’ll see a 7 extension to Secaucus Junction before we see the 6 hooked up to PATH).

          • Michael says:

            Without a doubt its a difficult area to work, with tons of potential obstructions, but the actual tunnel length would be very short (if feasible). So it would require much engineering and not so much construction.

            Another more obvious question is why does the path not connect to the 1 line adjacent to the path platforms at WTC? Adding a track connection to the 1 and building an uptown bound connection between the one and the grand central shuttle seems like another potential solution. I know this is another congested area with the Broadway and 7 Lines, but with some study, there may be a way to build it. A 7th ave PATH would be fairly redundant to the 6th ave PATH line, but It would provide riders with fewer transfers and more options.

            As for rolling stock. I believe the new PATH cars are based on the R142.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.....ling_stock
            That doen’t mean they share a loading gauge or voltage requirements, but does imply some compatibility. I think a dual voltage path train could probably run on the IRT, but the IRT might not fit in the hudson tunnels. I know that would open up all sorts of FRA issues, but modern signaling could provide better safety than the dated FRA regulations.

            • Adding a track connection to the 1 and building an uptown bound connection between the one and the grand central shuttle seems like another potential solution.

              Are you talking about a transfer between the 1 and 42nd St. Shuttle or an actual track connection? If the latter, that’s basically impossible.

            • al says:

              Some of the trucks, electronic architecture and modular HVAC design are based on R142. The signaling is also a bit different between NYCTA and PATH. furthermore, CBTC is going in on the PATH and would need to be compatible for trains to run on both Pelham and PATH.

              The angle that the IRT 7th Ave trunk meets the 42nd st Shuttle precludes a easy connection heading from downtown to GCT. The BMT Broadway and Flushing are in the way of an underpass. The area is also now jammed pack with office towers. It would require new tracks and tunnels that split off north of 23rd st and dive under the NY Penn tracks, Times Sq, and 6th Ave deep enough to avoid disturbing the structures nearby. I don’t know if the grade is above 4% but it seems difficult to make the connection to Grand Central shuttle.

              Connecting the 1 with PATH WTC is a challenge. The 1 would need new tunnels to dive south of Chambers St. The PATH would also need new tunnels (or maybe reuse the pre WTC Hudson Terminal tubes) west of West St and in the Western WTC Bathtub to rise to the 1 train. You might need a underground wye similar to the ones between Hoboken, Pavonia/Newport and Exchange Pl on the PATH in Hudson County. Service pattern would be (1) 242 St-South Ferry, (9) 242 St-Newark (express north Manhattan/BX), and maybe (S or 13) Newark-South Ferry.

    • Bolwerk says:

      First of all, I doubt H&M ever planned to “connect” to the IRT. They were competitors. H&M did plan to expand to Astor Place, and there even is an accommodation for that expansion. Of course, they planned to connect to GCT too, but the IND blocked that option.

      Second, I don’t think H&M/IRT trains have the exact same loading gauge – I’m not sure this can be overcome.

  2. pea-jay says:

    Expansions aside, I would be happy with just with the system being integrated into the city’s fare structure. It would probably allow the PATH to get more reverse NYC riders out to NJ. Right now I more or less ignore the NJ side of the Hudson unless there is some specific reason I have to go over there largely because its cheaper to stay on this side of the river.

    Even if it were some kind of modified fare structure that had an option for a 30-day pass w/PATH access for a higher charge and the ability for regular 30-day pass holders to store cash on the same Metrocard for like a 35-75cents surcharge for the occasional NJ trips. Ditto for pay-per-rides.

    Im not holding my breath for something so logical but I would love to know why my 30-day pass cant hold cash for the occasional NJ or MTA express bus trip?

    • TP says:

      And worse, that the 30-day unlimited Metrocards look identical to the stored value cards? I hate having to keep a stored value card on me for the occasional PATH or express bus trip and not remembering which is which (I think memorizing the expiration date is the only way, right?)

      If PATH is spending more money on service they should kill the night/weekend “Journal Square via Hoboken” routing and just run the weekday route 24/7. I know people in Jersey who don’t come into the city as much on weekends specifically because they don’t want to sit in Hoboken for 5 minutes.

      • Jeff says:

        Umm… You know you can just write on the cards instead of memorizing expiration dates, right?

        • Josh says:

          I keep them in different spots in my wallet (the unlimited in a prominent spot, the stored value card in a slot toward the back) to avoid not being able to tell which is which. I haven’t ever found myself needing to take an express bus, but I still have to keep the stored value card for the PATH and the AirTrain. As pea-jay alluded to above, is there some reason why one card couldn’t hold both?

          • bgriff says:

            Not a perfect solution, but a pay-per-ride EasyPay auto-refill Metrocard is helpful here — it has a unique design on the back so you can tell it apart, and then you have it ready to go (without ever having to refill it) any time you need to pay per ride, and can meanwhile supplement it with unlimited cards. The EasyPay card can be used at the AirTrain, and I think they were working on making it usable on PATH but I’m not sure if that ever got finalized.

        • Andrew says:

          That’s what I do.

          The cards look the same because (a) the machines have only one type of plastic MetroCard stock and (b) when the MetroCard system was designed, crime was still a major concern, and marking a 30-day unlimited as such would have made it a target for theft.

      • Adirondacker12800 says:

        At certain times in the dead of night the only way you get to sit in Hoboken for 5 minutes is if you get on at 33rd. The train is standing room only when it leaves 23rd. Last time a rode PATH in the dead of night it was SRO and only running every 30 minutes. Every 15 would be nice. Even every 20.

      • Adam says:

        The actual reason I read somewhere for the “Journal Square via Hoboken” routing on weekends has to do with WTC construction.

        • Adirondacker12800 says:

          It’s been go to Hoboken to get to Journal Square forever. Well maybe not forever but that was the service pattern back in the 70s.

  3. Bruce M says:

    Are there active plans to extend the PATH to Newark Airport? It would seem a natural, and relatively inexpensive extension that would provide a more convenient (and inexpensive) access to the airport from Manhanttan.

    • TP says:

      People ask about this a lot but I don’t think it’ll ever happen considering that the Port Authority runs the AirTrain and presumably spent money building that to go to the EWR NJTransit rail station. Why would they spend money to build more competing modes with their own service? There’s also frequent NJTransit bus service from Newark Penn to EWR’s terminals.

      When New Yorkers think of Newark they think of the airport, but really Newark Penn isn’t all that close to EWR, which is down on the southern border of the city, and actually half in Elizabeth.

      • Marcus says:

        Because of this, I wonder if it’s possible to extend the AirTrain to Newark Penn, allowing the PATH to have easy access to the AirTrain without having to jump on a NJTransit train…

        • pea-jay says:

          I like that idea MUCH better cos virtually all trains stop at Newark Penn and to more destinations, while only a smaller percentage stop at the airport stop. Pushing the AirTrain to NewarkP would give passengers a full range of one-transfer options at multiple price points, just like Jamaica station does for the JFK airtrain. Want to get to midtown fast? Get any inbound NJ transit train. Want to have a cheaper ride/one seat ride to Downtown? Use PATH.

          • bgriff says:

            The problem with this approach is that the EWR AirTrain is miserably slow on any sort of turn or incline. If it were possible to extend the system to Newark Penn on a dead straight line above the existing rail tracks it might make sense, but it would still be a long ride in cramped, uncomfortable little rail cars. Sadly the EWR AirTrain is not the JFK AirTrain.

            However, to respond to TP — I don’t think Bruce was saying extend the PATH to the airport, but rather extend the PATH to the Newark Airport rail station (or at least that’s what I’d suggest). It would drive more traffic to the Port Authority’s AirTrain, and would allow people to use all-PA services (AirTrain to PATH) and cut out NJ Transit, which is both more expensive for getting to the city and is not controlled by the PA.

      • ARC says:

        The Port Authority is in fact considering running the PATH to EWR. According to executives at the Port Authority, the AirTrain to EWR (and only EWR) was actually built as more of a pilot program and was not intended to be a permanent system. An extension to EWR’s terminals would not compete with AirTrain but would actually replace it.

        As for the distance, PATH has tail tracks that extend a pretty significant distance past Newark Penn Station. In essence, this means that the extension to EWR would only be a two-mile extension on an existing right-of-way.

        • ScottC says:

          It was always my understanding (and maybe I’m wrong) that the plan was to extend PATH from Newark Penn Station to the Newark Airtrain station where you would transfer to the Airtrain – much like you can take the A Train to the JFK Airtrain.

          I had never heard that PATH would replace Newark’s Airtrain. Again, maybe I am wrong.

          • Adirondacker12800 says:

            There have been plans to extend PATH to the airport since the 70s. I’ve been told that the terminals were built for things lighter than PATH cars so to get to the terminal there will always be a transfer to a people mover. And you wouldn’t want to run PATH to all the other place Airtrain goes to besides the NEC station and the terminals, so there will always be a people mover.

    • mike d. says:

      Its called Amtrak and NJ Transit or even a bus ride.

  4. D.J. says:

    More than an expansion into Manhattan, I think it should go more useful places in Jersey, particularly places that aren’t currently served by frequent 24 hour transit. Expanding to Newark Airport or the Meadowlands would gain it a ton of riders. A direct PATH train from EWR to Midtown would be very popular, I’d think.

  5. lawhawk says:

    PATH service has benefited most from the new rail cars, and the signal system still needs major work to improve reliability. The system went from having one of the oldest rolling stock inventories (average age was more than 30 years old) to the most modern in the US within the past couple of years. The new cars make a tremendous difference in reliability. The Port Authority got that right.

    Where they have suffered is in the cost overruns on the PATH hub at WTC, starting with the need to rebuild the temporary station twice even before getting to build the permanent hub, which is now scheduled to cost $3.8 billion (and well above the $2.2 billion originally forecast). That’s absolutely inexcusable and means that the rest of the system is shortchanged and forces the Port Authority to raise fares/tolls even higher to fund other projects.

    PATH’s Harrison station is scheduled for a major rehab, which is overdue. The stop has seen higher use due to the Red Bulls arena.

    As for long term expansion plans, a run out to EWR is plausible. It would add additional capacity into Manhattan and redundancy to the overburdened NEC.

    A run to the Meadowlands could make sense, especially since Triple Five has said that they’re keen on incorporating more mass transit to the rebadged Xanadu. NJ Transit currently operates a spur line during event days, but it would need a 24/7/365 service to handle the expected crowds.

    There was little talk of consolidating PATH with the subways during the phase where it could have gotten done so it’s too late to wonder what could have been had the Port Authority and MTA sought to link up the E, N, R, and or 1/9 to the PATH at WTC since all those cross and/or terminate at the WTC.

    Where both systems could benefit is incorporating the use of the smart card used by PATH. It superseded the token and former swipe ticket systems. The PATH SmartLink is already a tried and tested system that allows riders to use one of two flavors – set number of rides or an unlimited ride duration card.

    • al says:

      They chucked the PA4 with the older cars in the fleet. The PA bought them back in the late 80’s and had another ~20 years left in them. At least they could try to sell them like how Toronto sold some of their older subway cars to Nigeria.

  6. ARC says:

    D.J., originally there were plans to extend PATH to the current location of Secaucus Junction. Presumably, the construction of a rail link from Hoboken Terminal to Secaucus Junction obviated the need for such an extension as one could transfer to NJ Transit at Hoboken. Unfortunately, the heads our regional transportation systems cannot seem to sit down like adults and figure out a way to share revenue, thus allowing for one fare purchase across multiple modes of transportation.

    Such coordination could allow somebody near a PATH station to buy a single ticket (or even a monthly pass) that would allow them to take PATH to Hoboken Terminal and transfer to a NJ Transit train without purchasing any additional tickets. By simply swiping onto the NJ Transit train, there would be a record of the passenger using the train, thus allowing NJ Transit and PATH to share that percentage of the revenue. In much the same way, one could purchase a monthly SmartLink card or MetroCard and NYCT and PATH could determine how to share revenue based on when the card is swiped.

    In this day and age, PATH and NYCT both have the means to track everytime a certain SmartLink card or MetroCard are used and there is no reason that the two agencies shouldn’t be able to sit down and figure out a solution to this region’s incredibly disjointed transportation system.

  7. Ron Aryel says:

    I’d like to see more PATH stations upgraded to ADA compliance. Harrison’s reconstruction should be underway; Grove Street should be upgraded. Either Christopher st or 9th St should receive an ADA elevator.

  8. Bolwerk says:

    What the crowds at the WTC – streaming mainly south and east – should tell us is a lot of people aren’t being given a trip to their destination, and the PATH should be expanded in some way that makes a trip to their destination more convenient. This might not necessarily mean expanding the PATH south or east, but it should probably mean making it easier to transfer south or east.

    • Jeff says:

      That’s what the WTC Hub/Fulton Street Transit Center’s for… To make it easy to transfer in an East-West direction to North-South subway trains.

  9. Larry Littlefield says:

    It’s kind of surprising that PATH ridership is at a record, given that the system feeds Lower Manhattan and employment downtown is far below the level of the 1980s. I doubt many subway stations downtown have record ridership levels despite the growth systemwide.

    This is really a surprise to me.

    Anyway, the construction of the 6th Avenue exress subway beneath it pretty much locked the PATH out of expanding northward. It is locked in on all sides. The only option would be to expand east on 9th Avenue and then north on 5th Avenue, abandoning the 6th Avenue line. While that might make the PATH a better system, recall now West Village NIMBY’s prevented the Port Authority from even putting in an emergency exist at Christopher Street.

    • boerumhillscott says:

      PATH serves the southwest edge of Midtown Directly via 34th street, and serves all of NYC via tranfers to the subay system.

      There is a lot of commuting to business centers in New Jersey that are still growing, both from NYC and from New Jersey.
      I work at Exchange Place, and there are people who take LIRR or Metro North and transfer to the subway and then the PATH every day.

      There are also a good bit of new apartments close to PATH in New Jersey.

  10. corey best says:

    Most of the PATH Ridership is on the Jersey Side , like 70% of it so there shouldn’t be a push to expand on the New York side. The Jersey Side needs an Expansion to EWR. Newport station needs a rebuild , along with grove street which was botched back in 2003….theres not much you need to do on the NYC side platform screens doors would be nice for 14th , 23rd and 33rd Street stations and Newport… The PA’s next big project is now lumped into the Gateway Project….

  11. thedudeandwalter says:

    Guess the Red Bulls stadium is a getting a lot of use, with Harrison up 10%

  12. AlexB says:

    I think there are two ways to connect the PATH and 7 that could be useful, assuming that the PATH cannot be extended up 6th Ave. The only good connection/expansion to do in the WTC area would be the connection with the 6, and no one is going to propose ripping up those streets all over again.
    1) If the 7 is extended to New Jersey, the logical choice is Hoboken, not Secaucus. Hoboken has access to NJ Transit and is developed densely enough to support a subway station. Secaucus is miles farther and wouldn’t actually save someone time getting to and from the east side. Connecting the PATH and 7 there could work as follows: Disconnect the Newark/Journal Square bound tracks from the 33rd St line. Build a new tunnel from Pavonia-Newport northwards with a new station under the current Hoboken terminal (with transfer) and a new station at Stevens Institute (roughly at 8th St). From there, it could either swing over to a stop at 14th and 10th in Manhattan (if the L is extended) or connect to the 7 terminus at the Javits (under construction) with an intermediate stop at 23rd. This would be a roughly 3 mile tunnel. The existing Hoboken Terminal would only be used for 33rd St bound trains. 3 routes would be created: Flushing-WTC, Flushing-Newark, & Newark-WTC. Each of these routes would provide regional level connectivity and through service that is currently in short supply. Compared with the 10s of billions the 2nd Ave subway will cost, and the $9 billion for East Side Access, this could probably be done for about $5-6 billion.
    2) Another option would be to start with the potential expansion to Astor Place. Instead of going towards a new terminal there as shown in the graphic, however, it would run under 9th St and go up 5th Ave where there are fewer impediments to a connection to the 7 at 41st/42nd and 5th. The relative depths of each line, the minimum radius for making the connection, and existing building foundations might make this basically impossible; but even a stop at 5th Ave and 42nd would be within pedestrian tunnel distance of Grand Central, and could be extended to 59th St, the upper east side, or even to connect with the 2/3 at 110th. It would only be a 2 mile tunnel from the 9th St stop to 42nd and 5th. The 6th Ave line from 9th to 33rd would basically become redundant and likely abandoned or used as some sort of backup. This is all assuming that the W. 4th station is not in the way (a big if) or that the PATH could dive under it (possibly requiring demolition of the 9th St stop).

    I think option 1 is more useful because it would do more to expand the system instead of just connect it, and it would likely be easier to build. Building both options is overkill, but if done, the 5th Ave line could extend north with no need to connect to the 7 at all other than a transfer at 5th/42nd.

  13. corey best says:

    Maybe its closer to 60% , but its still mostly on the Jersey side and the fastest growing stations are on the Jersey Side…. Once the Harrison and Newark and Journal SQ redevelopments are completed i’m sure the scale will tilt closer to 80/20 , instead of the 60/40. The Harrison and Journal SQ redevelopments should add an addition 150,000 to the system. The Newark , Grove Street and Hoboken Developments should add another 80,000 to the system. I don’t see the NYC stations adding all that much , sure the WTC is big but is it going to add all that much? Alot of Jobs are shifting to Urban Jersey….its not like LOMAn is growing as much as it used to.

    • AG says:

      Well of course the majority of the ridership would be in New Jersey… People within that area of Manhattan don’t “have to” use the PATH… The PATH was made for movement between New Jersey and Manhattan.
      Also – you should go back and check the job growth during the recession… New Jersey is actually far behind… Existing jobs of course jobs will continue to shift to NJ because of the lower cost… but that’s not the same as actually creating jobs.

      • Bolwerk says:

        I wouldn’t say NJ has a clear-cut lower cost anyway. Transportation costs can be several times higher.

        • AG says:

          Bolwerk – no I meant in terms of price per sq. foot in real estate… which is what most companies will look at. That – and NJ gives NY companies huge tax incentive/subsidies to send some jobs across the river.

  14. corey best says:

    Its not really , jobs only 55,000 are expected along the PATH Corridor this decade. Its mostly Residential development and Jersey is becoming more attractive at least Harrison and Newark. There also cheaper….not an arm and a leg like Manhattan.

  15. corey best says:

    And Future lines feeding into the PATH in Newark will also boost ridership….the Expansion of the Newark LRT , NJT Regional Rail network and NJT BRT network will all play a role in ridership increases down the road.

  16. JS says:

    I love the PATH conductors… Among the last breed of nasal-voiced non-rhotic “r” speakers left in the tri-state area. The automated stop messages in the new cars have reduced the live announcements, but there’s a handful of conductors who still regale us with “Joy-nal Skwair twain”. There’s also a looped station annoucement “We are working haaaard to keep you safe everyday….”

  17. Tower18 says:

    Another (maybe one of the top) reason for PATH ridership growth has been the increase in bridge & tunnel tolls. Lots of people along the 280 corridor in Essex County, among others, who would normally have driven to Manhattan, are now parking at Harrison and Newark, and taking PATH.

    The last big toll increase was likely responsible for getting a lot of people out of their cars for the last 10 miles to Manhattan.

    • AG says:

      you make a good point… that’s why it’s all the more ridiculous that Governor Cuomo is trying to push through the new Tappan Zee Bridge project WITHOUT mass transit. Now it’s revealed the toll will be more than doubling. Yet they give drivers no alternative… Sad that politics gets in the way of proper planning.

  18. Alon Levy says:

    How crowded is PATH nowadays? It can’t be Lexington crowded, not with 280,000 weekday users or what have you, but I’m curious how much extra ridership it can easily absorb if Hudson County decides to upzone more aggressively.

    • JS says:

      It’s different crowded than the 6 train… The ride is longer and more jerky, so passengers push more to snatch coveted seats. The PATH headway times are 5 minutes at rush hour but drop down to 10 minutes after 6:30 pm, 15 minutes after 10 pm, and 30 minutes after midnight… It basically guarantees crowded trains at all hours of the day.

  19. Think twice says:

    More so than cost, I think the prospect of interstate red tape is what will keep NYCTA trains from ever going across state lines.

    NYC subways in Jersey could have only been possible in the days of private operators.

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