Oct
28

Transit shutdown to start at 7 p.m. tonight

By

Governor Cuomo and MTA Chairman Joe Lhota have announced that the MTA will begin to shut down the city’s transit network starting at 7 p.m. tonight. Bus service will halt at 9 p.m., and all commuter rail and subway service will be suspended as of 3 a.m. Monday morning ahead of what forecasters are predicting to be a very bad storm in the New York area, and there will be no transit service in the city for the Monday morning rush hour. “It is unsafe to operate trains in high winds,” the Governor said this morning.

“The transportation system is the lifeblood of the New York City region, and suspending all service is not a step I take lightly,” the Governor said. “But keeping New Yorkers safe is the first priority, and the best way to do that is to make sure they are out of harm’s way before gale-force winds can start wreaking havoc on trains and buses.”

Speaking to reporters this morning, Lhota said that he hopes the MTA can restore services 12 hours after the storm ends, but such timing depends upon power levels and any potential flooding. Lhota did not sound as though service would resume until Wednesday at best.

As for the specifics of the shutdown, here are the important parts: The subway system will begin to curtail service after 7 p.m. and buses will halt by 9 p.m. The final Metro-North and LIRR trains will leave at 7 p.m., and all subway and rail stations will be closed after the last trains depart. PATH trains will cease operating as of 12:01 a.m. on Monday morning. Flooding of tunnels has become a major concern with a very large storm surge predicted to hit the city.

On Staten Island, the SIR will likely run until the city stops ferry service. But, says the the Governor’s Office, “the railway will not operate if conditions are deemed unsafe.” Metro-North is not running the Train to the Game for today’s Jets game but believes it can accommodate all football fans who return “promptly” to Penn Station following the end of today’s game against the Dolphins.

Stay safe. By all indications, Sandy will be much, much worse than Irene.



Categories : Service Advisories

74 Responses to “Transit shutdown to start at 7 p.m. tonight”

  1. vb says:

    Make sure you show up at work (and school) as per Bloomberg’s orders! Everything will be open as usual!

  2. Andrew Smith says:

    I’d be curious about the calculations that go into making this call. I’d suspect they’re skewed toward a closure. There really aren’t any political consequences to shutting the system down needlessly, but there’d be huge ones if something went dramatically awry. Thus, I’d guess officials will close far too frequently.

    I’m not saying this closure isn’t justified. I’m neither a meteorologist nor an engineer. I’m just saying it’s hard to create the right incentive structure to make decision makers weigh the costs and benefits to New Yorkers rather than the cost and benefits to their careers.

    • Bolwerk says:

      The press’s Cuomo sycophants loved the show of I’mer-know-wha-i’m-doin’. Of course there would have been no consequences. But at least from the standpoint where we are now this looks like it could cause problems in ways that weren’t on the table for Irene 12 hours before it hit.

      As for their careers, what costs? When have they even been held accountable for fucking up and hurting people?

      • Jerrold says:

        I’m still trying to figure out what you mean by
        I’mer-know-wha-i’m-doin’.

        It’s the “mer” that I can’t understand.
        “I [WHAT?] know what I’m doing.”

    • Nathanael says:

      Storm surge is the main reason for this shutdown. The flooding will cause enormous amounts of damage. It’s not even clear that they can prevent the main Manhattan-Brooklyn tunnels from flooding. But even if they can, they can’t really run the subway system with all the ventilation grates sealed and all the staircases sandbagged…

      There was something to be said for having an elevated system, though of course that would be shut down due to the winds.

      New York is going to get one huge storm surge (upwards of 6 feet) with 20 foot waves on top — but Connecticut will get 11 feet storm surge with 20 foot waves on top. The area is going to be WET. Go uphill.

  3. Tarik says:

    Ben,

    Does this mean there will be no NJ Transit trains out of NY tomorrow morning?

    • Nathanael says:

      Yes.

      The following systems are shut down starting Monday:
      Amtrak (everything which runs on the NEC or Springfield line, including all services to NY, Philadelphia, and DC)

      All rail and bus service in Connecticut

      All of the MTA including:
      - Metro-North
      - Long Island Rail Road
      - NYC Subway
      - NYC Bus

      All private bus services to Port Authority & GWB Bridge Terminals

      All of New Jersey Transit

      All of SEPTA

      All of Maryland’s bus & rail service

      DC Metro (rail & bus)

      VRE

      And possibly more. Local transit service in Boston, MA and in Norfolk, VA is still operating, which gives you a sense of the edges of the shutdown.

  4. Ed says:

    I objected to this with Irene, but after thinking this over I can see two possible reasons for this.

    First of all, the city has been hit by big storms in the past (“northeasters”, though these are actually as bad as the hurricans are by the time they get to the Northeast). Officials didn’t see fit to close the transit system whenever a big storm shows up until about a year ago. While we will be getting more of these storms, what has changed is not the storm itself.

    Either we live in an era when officials are much more risk-adverse, or the infrastructure of the system has deteriorated to the point where it can no longer ride out a big storm. Since I know from this blog that the MTA has had difficulties in keeping up with the necessary maintenance, my bet is on the latter.

    In any event, I overheard conversations while riding the subway today about bosses who were expecting their workers to show up for work on Monday, hurricane or no hurricane, so in a backhanded way this call will help alot of workers.

    • Spendmore Wastemore says:

      Welcome to the Ninnyfication of New York.

      Doomberg is nearly 80 and rather soft. He wants to make New York react in the manner of a pampered, intrusive old lady.

      Like himself.

      • Nathanael says:

        You people are idiots.

        This is the worst storm ever to hit the Northeast coast. Literally, ever. Weather forecasters are worried that it may be worse than Katrina. Waves in Connecticut will be 30 feet above normal sea level. If anything, the city is underprepared; people should have evacuated to Ohio!

        • Justin Samuels says:

          No way this Storm is anything like Katrina, which was a category 5 storm. Sandy is category 1, and by the time it hits NYC it will be just a tropical Storm. Spendmore isn’t too far off. It sounds like chicken little screaming the sky is falling, the sky is falling.

          • Bolwerk says:

            The category just describes the wind. It says nothing about the storm surge, which I guess probably has more to do with the actual physical size of the storm itself (this one is record making big, radius-wise).

            It was pretty obvious 12-16 hours before Irene that it wasn’t going to be very bad. Shutting down the transit system then, completely anyway, earned deserved some eye rolling because, frankly, the system had been through worse. Hell, it might literally have been wasteful and counterproductive then, and I said as much at the time.

            However, circumstances are different this time. The surge is worse and the weather is a bit more unpredictable.

            • Nathanael says:

              The storm is 200 miles away and sea level is already washing over the Battery.

              Repeat: The storm is still 200 miles away, and the sea is washing over the Battery. Meanwhile, the storm is getting STRONGER.

              Sandy is going to create giant waves in CHICAGO.

              It’s basically a hurricane wrapped in the middle of a Nor’easter.

              The barometric pressure is lower than in the 1938 “Long Island Express” Hurricane — there is an insane amount of energy in this storm. It’s going to be different, because of its weird hybrid nature: there’s significantly less rainfall, and slightly lower wind (than the 1938 hurricane — still >80 mph gusts!) — but there’s going to be a MUCH bigger storm surge.

              If you’re in flood zone A, get out and move to higher ground. If you’re in flood zone B — get out and move to higher ground; although it probably won’t be inundated, you’ll have waves crashing over your door. If you’re above the 10th story of a building, stay away from windows.

              Soon, due to the winds, it will become unsafe to go outside.

              • Justin Samuels says:

                I’m in Zone A, and there is no flooding in my part of it at all. Still screaming chicken little? I have a lot of neighbors who also didn’t leave.

    • Alon Levy says:

      Nathanael is right. My It’s Complicated is telling me that both Harvard and Brown canceled classes today, which for both universities is the first time since 1978.

  5. R. Graham says:

    All I can say is that this is definitely not Irene. If this storm goes as expected don’t expect Subway service in the close to vulnerable flooding areas to return immediately after the passing of this storm. Winds have intensified but more importantly the storm center is going to make landfall on the central NJ coast meaning the western flow of circulation is going to make landfall in NY Harbor. There will be flooding in the Zone A areas. There is no argument. The Battery will be toppled. This area of the storm usually receives the largest push of water from surge. The harbor narrowing towards the city and the rivers will intensify that surge and increase flooding.

    Point is the subways close to these areas will be flooded. Salt water and signals don’t mix. Flooding in tunnels in the vulnerable areas will not be back up during restoration. Those are the facts.

    • Nathanael says:

      One of the advantages of shutting the entire system down, is that it becomes possible to do some floodproofing which is impossible with a running system. Station entrances can be surrounded with walls of sandbags, ventilation grates can be sealed shut, etc.

  6. pea-jay says:

    If this storm does inundate the tunnels, maybe finally we can have a serious discussion about floodgates at the Narrows and beefed up flood walls along the seafronts in BK, SI and Queens

    • Spendmore Wastemore says:

      Er, why not just raise the tunnel portals a few feet? That would prevent most of the inrush from a brief storm surge. Then add flood doors to the tunnel entrances – that’s a maintenance project. Finish with plywood over low lying gratings, as MTA has already done today. That should cut infiltration to within the existing pump capacity.

      Both combined are about 1/10000th of saltwater floodgates. Such gates are not a bad idea, but that’s all they’re going to be for a couple decades.

      Fiberglass tunnel doors can be made by any of 100s of local shops.

      • Nathanael says:

        One of the big problems with this storm is that the storm surge is going to last for a loooong time. Over 24 hours, perhaps.

        And “raise the tunnel portals a few feet”? Some of the portals you can do that with, but in other cases, the water comes in through the cut-and-cover subway stations.

        Lower Manhattan needs a higher floodwall for storms like this. A floodwall is also needed around northwestern Queens.

  7. Anon says:

    New York City has ordered a MANDATORY EVACUATION of Zone A, the Rockaways, Hamilton Beach, and City Island

  8. DF says:

    I will defer to those with a detailed understanding of the logistics of shutting down the system, but is there a reason the MTA can’t say “we’ll be shutting down most lines at 7, but we’ll keep (say) the A, F, and 5 running till midnight, so you can at least get somewhere in the general vicinity of where you’re going even if it’s on one of the other lines”. Likewise, given that the storm isn’t really going to hit until tomorrow, why not let the bus service taper normally to overnight levels before shutting it down?

    • Eric says:

      I think they just want everyone in place well before the storm hits, not rushing at the last minute.

    • Tower18 says:

      As far as I can guess, it’s probably a couple things.

      1. They’re moving trains out of the yards and storing them on the tracks in the tunnels. This includes the A because of 207th yard and the F because of Coney.

      2. The employees performing all this maneuvering still need to get home at some point, so not only does it take awhile to do what they’re proposing, but even after it’s done, the people need to get home, so they can’t do it immediately before the storm hits.

      • Frank says:

        Why do the employees have to get home in a weather emergency? The MTA could certainly provide places for employees to hole up while the worst of the storm passed. That would make it faster to get service restarted too. It might not be pleasant, but they’re getting compensated pretty well.

    • Nathanael says:

      After the relocation of the trains and buses to ‘safe’ locations — which takes hours — the MTA is also making a concerted effort to floodproof what’s left, some of which can’t be properly sealed up until the trains aren’t running any more. Expect that the MTA will still be turning electricity supplies off and sandbagging staircases on Monday morning.

  9. Alex C says:

    If the NYC area becoming a hurricane hotspot doesn’t bring about serious transport infrastructure upgrade talks among politicians, nothing will. (Hint: it won’t)

  10. Asher says:

    “When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.”

  11. JJJ says:

    Amtrak has anounced no service tomorrow. The bus line (megabus, bolt etc) have also cancelled all service in the region. NJT is shutting down statewide at the conclusion of service tonight, at 4pm for atlantic city service and other coastal routes.

  12. Spendmore Wastemore says:

    It appears some degree of service suspension is unavoidable, due to the expected storm surge. But most of the mileage will be above water, and 39 mph winds have been traversed before with zero issues. One will not be blown off as the platforms have windscreens and the train you just got off is blocking the wind.

    Why not short turn the trains before the expected flood areas, and redirect/substitute trains to routes which probably won’t flood such as the 7 and routes over Manhattan and Williamsburg bridges. The water level will build gradually, so it is not difficult to start short-turning trains before a section becomes impassible.

    • Justin Samuels says:

      Its probably a lot simpler to just shut the whole system down. Big deal, worst case scenario you get a day off work. Enjoy it.

      The system also wasn’t designed to operate piecemeal, since some of the train yards flooded last year, they like to store trains in tunnels in high areas. Meaning you can’t have train service on those areas, though there’s no risk of flooding, they have trains parked there. So the whole system has to close.

      No one wants to be blamed for the loss of rolling stock, which costs close to 2 million per car and takes awhile to manufacture. So they’d rather be safe than sorry.

      • Larry Littlefield says:

        I agree with that. This is unprecedented. I’m afraid the tunnels will be filled with water due to flooding in Lower Manhattan.

        • Spendmore Wastemore says:

          I don’t particularly object for myself. If I had a car I’d call it a form of entertainment.

          It’s cascade of disruption from slowly shutting down and slowly restarting service. Even if the floods due no damage (wouldn’t bet on that), it’ll be until Wednesday for everything to run normally. That’s 3+ lost days. For some people, such as those paid by the hour or low-margin businesses just getting by it’s a big hit.

      • Rob Stevens says:

        Of course it’s simpler. And easier. So that’s why they do it. But what abt the buses?? They don’t mind if you drive your own car or take a cab; they are keeping their [highway] bridges and tunnels open.

        • Nathanael says:

          Bridges and tunnels will probably be closed sometime Monday.

          They like to make sure that anyone who started a bus or train trip finishes it; that’s why (for example) NJT is going to stop new bus runs at 2 AM, but will finish all the bus runs then in progress.

          People in private cars, on the other hand, are out of luck if the roads they were planning to use close while they’re halfway through a trip. “So sorry”.

  13. JE says:

    It’s a different story down in DC … for now.

    https://twitter.com/WTOP/status/262662264677617664

  14. James C says:

    I agree with the above poster, it seems pretty likely that some significant damage is going to be done to the MTA’s infrastructure from flooding.

  15. Rob Stevens says:

    Yes, another sad commentary on the decline of the country.

    Anyone else note the irony of this closing announcement coming on the anniversary of the Oct 27 1904 opening by the private IRT, which never closed the system? And now, what, this is twice in about 2 yrs?

    The IRT and BMT which supposedly screwed the public never closed. On the other hand, the government which is here to help us serve us [ha ha], can’t even be bothered to keep ANY part of the system open.

    • Nathanael says:

      The IRT and BMT never got hit with this kind of storm. Ever.

      That’s because this kind of storm didn’t HAPPEN until global warming melted the Arctic and changed the Atlantic air circulation patterns to create a (formerly) rare “block” over the northern Atlantic which forces the hurricane west.

      Sandy hitting NYC is a direct consequence of global warming. The IRT and BMT didn’t have to deal with that.

      Now, is our government dealing with global warming? Well…. no. Which is why I agree with you about the decline of this country.

      • Justin Samuels says:

        LI got wrecked by a hurricane in the 1930s. Big Storms have hit NYC before……………

        • Nathanael says:

          This storm has now been verified to have more energy than the “Long Island Express” hurricane to which you refer.

          It’s a hurricane wrapped in a nor-easter, and is *literally* the strongest storm seen in 100 years. It’s also the biggest *ever* seen (the storm system extends from Maritime Canada to Georgia, and west to Chicago). And the storm surge is concentrating directly on New York and Long Island sound.

          It will have less rainfall than previous hurricanes. Don’t be fooled by that!

          • Justin Samuels says:

            And where I am in the Rockaways is not flooded. It doesn’t sound particularly bad. The city is in for a rough time if people can’t handle bad weather.

    • Someone says:

      The IRT and BMT were privatized, but they chose to keep it open because even in inclement weather it still needed to keep running. They didn’t have accurate weather forecasts back then, and besides, the $0.05 fare was too cheap even back then, so both companies needed to keep service open at all times

  16. Frank says:

    I doubt the system is any less able to handle a storm than 10 or 20 years ago. We were just more fatalistic in the past, and now are getting less and less so all the time. I write this an hour and a half after the system has officially shut down. There is no rain, very little wind. And yet thanks to the governor, the city has effectively shut down. They aren’t even running buses! This is risk aversion taken to an extreme.

    In fact, things aren’t even forecast to get bad until sometime tomorrow. And that depends on the storm–which has been slowing down and moving out to sea–changing course and following the track the models have predicted, remaining as intense as predicted, and interacting with other fronts as predicted. How often does that happen?

    And this is indicative of a big problem for the city, because if the public transportation system can be shut down at will by politicians without even the pretense of providing an alternative, it will encourage car buying among people who simply cannot stop work for an indefinite duration. And once you have invested in the purchase of a car, the marginal cost of using it comes way down. So the result is going to be more congestion.

    Now, maybe things will turn out bad, or close to bad, and this will have proved to be a wise decision. But it’s hard to see at this point why the system had to be shut down so early.

    • Phantom says:

      Risk aversion to extreme?

      Yes.

      There is no reason why the system could not have run at least 12 hours longer?

      And with more planning I fail to see why some lines D? 2? E? F? G? could not have run through the storm.

      And some buses too.

      Safeguarding expensive equipment is great, but there should be a way to do it without shutting everything down with no exception

      Great comment Frank

      • Nathanael says:

        You people have no idea what sort of a monster storm you’re dealing with.

        This shutdown will probably mean that most of the subway system will be *able* to reopen on Wednesday or Thursday. Waiting 12 hours to shut down would probably mean total destruction of far more of the subway, and many more months before reopening.

        • Nathanael says:

          The point is that the shutdown gives the MTA time to do serious floodproofing and windproofing, which it could not do if it waited 12 hours.

          • Justin Samuels says:

            Monster of a storm? An exaggeration for sure……………

            • Nathanael says:

              It’s still *200 miles offshore*, and the Battery is flooding.

              Have you SEEN the satellite map? The storm system goes from the Canadian Maritimes to Chicago to Georgia. The hurricane managed to move right into the center of a developing nor’easter.

          • Bolwerk says:

            Not that I entirely disagree, but some lines probably could run: the 7 and L perhaps. Most anything north of Canal that goes toward Brooklyn could be short run.

            It, of course, might be better not spending resources to bother, but notably it’s those certain low-lying areas that are going to be an issue now and persistently in the future.

            • Someone says:

              The 7 could run because it is a deep-level route in Manhattan and elevated in Queens, but perhaps not the L, it is too close to the ground and might get flooded.

            • Eric says:

              The 7 has stops in LIC, which is in zone A with a possibility for the Steinway tube to flood. And I wouldn’t want to be on an elevated train when an 80MPH gust hits.

  17. Nathanael says:

    Some notes on how bad this is. It’s not just the trains and buses. The Port Authority believes that all flights in and out of NYC will have stopped by now. (Apparently it’s still up to individual airlines.) Flights in stopped a while ago, but some effort is being made to remove as many airplanes as possible from New York. (LaGuardia is expected to have its runways covered in water, for example.)

    All roads in Delaware will be closed at 5 AM.

    We’ll see when the roads are closed in NY, but expect it to happen.

    • Nathanael says:

      Yep, all air service has been suspended now. AirTrain JFK was shut down at 10 PM and AirTrain Newark is being shut down.

      Too late to evacuate. Time to hunker.

  18. petey says:

    alot of us up early!
    in the event, the subways and trains closed a good 6 hrs too soon. but the rains are moving in now. had to get mrs petey from penn station, arriving from DC around 10 pm, odd but pleasant to see so little traffic everywhere.
    statue of liberty cam:
    http://www.earthcam.com/usa/ne.....liberty_hd

  19. Disk Space says:

    Thanks for any other informative web site. The place else could I get that type of information written in such an ideal approach? I’ve a venture that I’m simply now running on, and I’ve been on the glance

  20. Someone says:

    The only thing that will fail is the IRT. Its cut and cover digging methods mean that it is easy to get flooded.

  21. Nathanael says:

    FYI, I managed to find, somewhere, information indicating that the MTA actually dismantled trackside equipment (which would be severely damaged by salt water) from the most flood-prone tunnels and relocated it above ground for safety. That accounts for why they shut the subways so early….

  22. Someone says:

    Does anyone know when the subway will get back online?

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